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[Screaming_Gremlin]

Nemesis isn't THAT bad.

Star Trek V is like one of the worst original series episodes stretched out into a 2+ hour epic.

Absolutely agree with what you are saying about V, but it was one of those movies to me that is bad that I can get some enjoyment out it. Like Street Fighter: The Movie. I think the only thing I liked about Nemesis was the new Warbird design. On the other hand... Admiral Janeway. Go to hell Berman and Braga.

 

[JB1981]

Search for Spock would have been a much better movie had they cast someone else as Kruge. The Klingon's were terribly campy in that one.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Janeway should have been court martialed rather then promoted when you get down to it

 

[JB1981]

BTW whatever becomes of Lt. Valeris at the end of VI? They never address that

 

[kharma45]

Janeway should have been court martialed rather then promoted when you get down to it

sfdebris has evil Janeway nailed.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

That's what people think is better than the new Star Treks?

I mean, it was pretty good. Montalban was fun, but apart from that none of the rest of the cast were anything other than meh. Sulu, Chekhov and Uhura have even less to do than in Into Darkness. Spock literally does fuck all but stand there looking pensive until the last five minutes. Even Khan isn't really the superior intellectual that I was led to believe. Just ignores the bloke telling him the shields are down, then flops about in pain with his admittedly impressive chest out.

I quite enjoyed it, but I'm surprised at the flak STID gets when the supposed best ST movie is this. It doesn't have the plot holes STID does I guess but... meh.

/shitthread

Everything you say is fairly accurate, but you should understand that the main difference between this and Into the Darkness is the quality of writing. WOK has character arcs, it was ultimately about Kirk coming to terms with and accepting his own mortality. Into Darkness was about... nothing. Whiz Bang Zoom.

 

[industrian]

The sad thing is I think I would still rather watch Star Trek V over Nemesis.

Nemesis has a special place in Star Trek history too. As basically the anti-Undiscovered Country.

Like I said, The Undiscovered Country acted as brilliant closure to the Original Series and the real-life culture that it existed in. Everything came together in The Undiscovered Country to compliment the series, the characters, the fans and everything.

Compared to Nemesis, the so-called "A generation's final journey" and it's just sad. They even reused the concept of The Undiscovered Country - peace between the Federation and the recurring enemies of The Next Generation the Romulans, but in actuality this theme was just used as launchpad to car chases, a fat Riker having a fist fight and a now-funny retrospective look at a pre-Horsemeat Tom Hardy. (That and DS9 had already covered the Romulan-Federation truce angle in a good-enough manner.)

In the right hands, "Nemesis" could have been a proper send-off for The Next Generation crew that utilised the full talents of the crew, but to be honest it already had a proper finale in All Good Things... (the Original Series lacked a proper ending with being cancelled and all.) But at least it was better than what Enterprise got...

 

[ProfessorLobo]

I watched Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock back to back the other day. Perfect Sunday afternoon viewing. Very enjoyable.

What I really miss on new movies is the lack of pacing. Those old movies had lovely pacing. Some lovely slow warm scenes that built characters. Some great unhurried dialogue. It made the action bits that much better. I miss the old school of movie making.

Oh my god, yes. I've been getting really bitter about blockbusters lately. I just want to hear people talk about something substantial once in awhile. It makes the action so much more important.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Was Nemesis set in TNG era?

 

[kharma45]

Was Nemesis set in TNG era?

Yes.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

Was Nemesis set in TNG era?

Yes, well slightly post TNG era, since it took place right after Voyager's ending

 

[george_us]

Absolutely agree with what you are saying about V, but it was one of those movies to me that is bad that I can get some enjoyment out it. Like Street Fighter: The Movie. I think the only thing I liked about Nemesis was the new Warbird design. On the other hand... Admiral Janeway. Go to hell Berman and Braga.

Nemsis also had a pretty sweet dogfight despite it ending poorly.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Was Nemesis set in TNG era?

TNG film set in 2379, after voyager returns.

 

[The Librarian]

TWoK is a great; an unarguably better film than the two contemporary Abrams films. For one, it treats its female characters with great respect.

For those who want to understand why it's good, I'd point you to SFDebris' review of the film.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Ahh so it's TNG cast but set after two generations (DS9 and Voyager), interesting.

And I just realized Star Trek is sorta like the "Jojo" of the west - that is, same universe but follows different generations. Now I kinda want Star Trek Jojo.

Man all this talk makes me wonder which of the cast have passed away. I know Ricardo Montalban passed away four years ago.

 

[SolsticeZero]

Ahh so it's TNG cast but set after two generations (DS9 and Voyager), interesting.

And I just realized Star Trek is sorta like the "Jojo" of the west - that is, same universe but follows different generations. Now I kinda want Star Trek Jojo.

Man all this talk makes me wonder which of the cast have passed away. I know Ricardo Montalban passed away four years ago.

George Takei, William Shatner, Walter Koenig, and Nichelle Nichols are all that are left, I believe

 

[JB1981]

TWoK is a great; an unarguably better film than the two contemporary Abrams films. For one, it treats it's female characters with great respect.

For those who want to understand why it's good, I'd point you to SFDebris' review of the film.

Truly the metric by which all Star Trek movies should be measured; how they treat their supporting female characters.

The Star Trek universe could use a little sex appeal as far as I'm concerned. Nothing wrong with a cadet trying to impress the Capt with what she's got underneath.

 

[kharma45]

Ahh so it's TNG cast but set after two generations (DS9 and Voyager), interesting.

And I just realized Star Trek is sorta like the "Jojo" of the west - that is, same universe but follows different generations. Now I kinda want Star Trek Jojo.

Man all this talk makes me wonder which of the cast have passed away. I know Ricardo Montalban passed away four years ago.

Scotty and Bones are dead too, the rest are still alive.

Always loved this snippet from DeForest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgcE6NxgrEc

 

[industrian]

George Takei, William Shatner, Walter Koenig, and Nichelle Nichols are all that are left, I believe

The day that Shatner passes I am legit wearing an Original Series yellow shirt for a week.

 

[Magnus]

Didn't you get the memo, OP? Something new is never as good as a 'classic.'

 

[The Librarian]

Truly the metric by which all Star Trek movies should be measured; how they treat their supporting female characters.

Right, because that's what I was saying. It IS kind of sad though that a thirty-year old Trek movie treats its female characters better than a modern day one.

 

[kharma45]

The day that Shatner passes I am legit wearing an Original Series yellow shirt for a week.

Shatner looks like he'll never die. The man looks incredible for 82.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Shatner looks like he'll never die. The man looks incredible for 82.

Denny Crane

 

[JB1981]

Right, because that's what I was saying. It IS kind of sad though that a thirty-year old Trek movie treats its female characters better than a modern day one.

You keep bringing it up though and kind of overstating its importance in the movie. It's a throwaway gag. Uhura did more in STiD than she did in the entire OG Star Trek series.

 

[industrian]

Shatner looks like he'll never die. The man looks incredible for 82.

In the immortal words of Rodney Dangerfield "I'm at the age now where if I take very, very good care of myself from this day on, I'll get very sick and die."

The next 5-10 years may be rough for old-school celebrity deaths. Shatner, Nimoy, Connery, Christopher Lee... it goes on and on.

 

[Boss Doggie]

George Takei, William Shatner, Walter Koenig, and Nichelle Nichols are all that are left, I believe

Nimoy!

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Haven't you heard? Internet forums consider plot holes to be the eighth deadly sin

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is by far the best of the original movies. I love Wrath of Khan, but there's a bit of "Genesis" filler in there. Plus, The Undiscovered Country has this motherfucker:



General motherfucking Chang

This one was my favorite as well.

 

[Nekofrog]

Everything you say is fairly accurate, but you should understand that the main difference between this and Into the Darkness is the quality of writing. WOK has character arcs, it was ultimately about Kirk coming to terms with and accepting his own mortality. Into Darkness was about... nothing. Whiz Bang Zoom.

Into Darkness is about Kirk coming to terms with the fact that he is not infallible, that he can't get out of every situation completely unscathed. It was about being humbled, humiliated, and humanized.

 

[Measley]

Frankly I find the reboots superior to every ST film on just about every level.

2, 4, and 6 were the only decent ST films. In general, Star Trek films are a bunch of retired people exploring the galaxy. It's boring. New Trek is youthful and filled with adventure. I love it.

 

[thefro]

Watched it for the first time yesterday as well on Amazon Prime.

It was pretty good, although the end kinda drags after the Khan storyline wraps up. The third movie existing kinda takes away any impact the ending would have had when the movie came out. Special Effects look cheap but they made this on a tiny budget.

Haven't seen Star Trek into Darkness yet.

 

[The Librarian]

You keep bringing it up though and kind of overstating its importance in the movie. It's a throwaway gag. Uhura did more in STiD than she did in the entire OG Star Trek series.

As for Uhura, they struggled to give her things to do. In STiD she's all about her relationship. *groans*

As for my keep bringing it up: As a woman it bothers me. So there.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Haven't you heard? Internet forums consider plot holes to be the eighth deadly sin

Yeah, we shouldn't ever worry about lazy writing, especially if the movie moves fast enough to keep us from paying too much attention to the story or dialogue.

 

[muddream]

I prefer the one with whales in it.

I watched them all to get in the mood for Into Darkness (first time since childhood) and that's the only one you can still enjoy without being a Star Trek nerd. The others are full of bad cgi, action sequences that climax in Bud Spencer style fistfights and the most boring spacebattles in cinema history...and worst of all, the straight to DVD acting of William Shatner.

 

[Liquidsnake]

STID villain can't even hold TWOK's. Its not even debatable!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JB1981]

As for Uhura, they struggled to give her things to do. In STiD she's all about her relationship. *groans*

As for my keep bringing it up: As a woman it bothers me. So there.

What's wrong with that? Her and Spock are arguing and it actually leads to some very funny conversation. I liked it. It was relatable.

 

[teruterubozu]

As for Uhura, they struggled to give her things to do. In STiD she's all about her relationship. *groans*

As for my keep bringing it up: As a woman it bothers me. So there.

Well, Star Trek is one of the last places I'd look for "strong females".

 

[Pagusas]

just wanted to say how glad I am Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is getting the love it deserves. Truly a great film, not just a great scifi. And as has already been said, it holds up insanely well today! The practicle shots and overall filming style (I feel it was the first Star Trek film to be filmed in a modern/darker style) it just holds together great and looks beautiful.

 

[TheExodu5]

I think I put the original movies like this:

VI > II > IV > III > V > I

Agreed entirely.

 

[george_us]

Into Darkness is about Kirk coming to terms with the fact that he is not infallible, that he can't get out of every situation completely unscathed. It was about being humbled, humiliated, and humanized.

The problem with that in nearly every instance Kirk loses something, he gets in back in the next five minutes.

Spoiler

Pike dying

is the lone exception.

 

[kharma45]

just wanted to say how glad I am Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is getting the love it deserves. Truly a great film, not just a great scifi. And as has already been said, it holds up insanely well today! The practicle shots and overall filming style (I feel it was the first Star Trek film to be filmed in a modern/darker style) it just holds together great and looks beautiful.

So good they even reused SFX from it in Generations

 

[SolsticeZero]

Nimoy!

Ha, I actually typed him, but I think my phone deleted the line. Fuck my phone.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

You keep bringing it up though and kind of overstating its importance in the movie. It's a throwaway gag. Uhura did more in STiD than she did in the entire OG Star Trek series.

Complaining about your boyfriend for 90% of your dialog does not a character make.

 

[Boss Doggie]

For me, it's IV = II > remakes > I, but not saying the remakes are bad. I never watched VI but I fear I might need to watch the whole other films to get it unlike the others.

Ha, I actually typed him, but I think my phone deleted the line. Fuck my phone.

I really hope that's not a sign of things to come :/

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Into Darkness is about Kirk coming to terms with the fact that he is not infallible, that he can't get out of every situation completely unscathed. It was about being humbled, humiliated, and humanized.

But he did get away completely unscathed. He didn't even have any physical deformities from a lethal amount of radiation. The only people that didn't get out unscathed are the 100,000 San Francisco casualties that no one seemingly cares about.

 

[Nekofrog]

The problem with that in nearly every instance Kirk loses something, he gets in back in the next five minutes.

Spoiler

Pike dying

is the lone exception.

I wasn't referring to his losing command, but more along the lines of people dying under it. He clearly states near the beginning that under his command, he hasn't lost anyone. That changes pretty quickly as he starts to realise that his decisions have consequences that he could never have predicted.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

BTW whatever becomes of Lt. Valeris at the end of VI? They never address that

She traveled back in time and spent the rest of her life having sex in the city .... ba da bum tish.

I always loved WOK sure it is showing it's age these days but Ricardo Montalban did a fantastic job of playing Khan. The original Khan had some personality and depth to him. Thanks to Ricardo you could see the hate he had for Kirk and anyone else he considered "inferior".

The new version of WOK just did not have that. I honestly saw nothing of the new Khan he just came across as a generic baddie. Now having said that I did enjoy the new Trek film but it was nothing special in my book.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

I wasn't referring to his losing command, but more along the lines of people dying under it. He clearly states near the beginning that under his command, he hasn't lost anyone. That changes pretty quickly as he starts to realise that his decisions have consequences that he could never have predicted.

How is this shown to weigh on him or change his character in any way?

 

[The Librarian]

What's wrong with that? Her and Spock are arguing and it actually leads to some very funny conversation. I liked it. It was relatable.

There's nothing wrong with treating Uhura like your average movie's love interest?

Well, Star Trek is one of the last places I'd look for "strong females".

Okay? That's besides my point. Doesn't mean it has to be disrespectful. And Star Trek films may not have always had great females characters – TWoK did, like Valeris and Carol Marcus – but they were treated with respect.

 

[Herne]

Star Trek IV has double the memorable quotes of any of the others, and is also the best pre-Abrams Star Trek movie.

The fastest way to come to terms with the shortcomings of Wrath of Khan is to watch it with someone who has never seen it before and watch their face as they occasionally shoot you sidelong glances trying to figure out if you were serious when you said "this movie is great, you have to see it." If you didn't see it at the time it came out, it's a lost cause. It's from another era, and beyond the novelty of Khan and Kirk never meeting face-to-face, doesn't really have much of interest to offer.

Definitely disagree. Wrath of Khan was way before my time - I was four when it was released - and I consider it one of the best Star Trek films, along with Undiscovered Country. The new films are alright, they're fun adventure films but they don't have the luxury of having started with a tv show and therefore already have a lot of backstory. They are so fast-paced that it is only upon repeated viewings that you begin to understand that they are full of flaws. Also, comparing the slower, more measured pace of space combat in the originals - Enterprise Vs. Reliant or Enterprise Vs. Vengeance... the Reliant beats the Enterprise in a fight far more thrilling than the pew-pew light show of the new film, despite far superior visual effects.

I even like the internal design better in the old films. Take a look at the bridge of the Enterprise-A in Undiscovered Country - it's got a definite naval theme, but also suitably space-age-ish. Now look at the bridge from the new films. Ridiculously white and chic and unsuitable - the iBridge, as people like to call it.

I enjoy the new films, but they don't evoke near as much thought as the older films.