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[threenote]

All this "light" business reminded me of what Locke saw in "Walkabout."

 

[ConradCervantes]

I believe I counted six usages of the phrase "across the sea" in this episode, including four consecutive lines in the scene with

Spoiler

Young MiB and his dead mother

. Terrible dialogue and delivery.

 

[Undeux]

I am pissed that I bothered watching this shit instead of getting some goddamn sleep.

You've also been trolling Lost for over a season iirc, so who's shocked or concerned?

 

[threenote]

You've also been trolling Lost for over a season iirc, so who's shocked or concerned?

he's been trolling Lost since the season 1 threads. He's the most pathetic fool I've seen on the Internet.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

All this "light" business reminded me of what Locke saw in "Walkabout."

Exactly. Light = smoke monster = cave.

For some reason, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the light being EVIL, instead of GOOD ALIEN MAGIC. Seems more...real.

 

[thebagofsand]

 

[OneEightZero]

:lol

 

[fireside]

I started to realize that the islands mythology really isn't all that important. In all honesty, as Darlton have said time and time again, this isn't about the island, it's about the characters. That's the story they're telling, and they're doing a fine job at it.

I'm sorry, but this is just a bunch of bullshit. If the island isn't important that than don't base every character's story on the importance of the island.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I'm sorry, but this is just a bunch of bullshit. If the island isn't important that than don't base every character's story on the importance of the island.

The Island is the McGuffin.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

I'm sorry, but this is just a bunch of bullshit. If the island isn't important that than don't base every character's story on the importance of the island.

Agreed. The mythology of the island, aka the philosophy, the science fiction, and the existential questions were what ELEVATED the characters and drama, and what made Lost...well, Lost. Otherwise we're just left with a really well written soap opera.

 

[Dead]

the hell!? Is that Welliver and Pellegrino?? :lol

 

[duckroll]

So let's go over what we learned in this "monumental" mythos episode:

- Jacob and IOnlyThoughtOfOneName are twins who were born from a random woman who was shipwrecked on the island.

- MysteriousWomanWithNoName kills her after delivering the twins, deciding to make them her successors.

- The other people on the ship are minding their own business just trying to survive on the island.

- There is a magic cave which leads into a magic light which is the source of life, death, rebirth, and sexy gremlins.

- IOnlyThoughtOfOneName can see ghosts and just "knows" things because he's special. He also sees his dead mother and learns that MysteriousWomanWithNoName has been lying. Like any normal intelligent human being, he says "fuck this shit" and leaves. He wants to get off the island and see the outside world his real mother came from.

- Jacob sticks with the woman he knows killed his real mother because he's a weak wuss loser.

- IOnlyThoughtOfOneName finally finds the source of the island's mysterious powers with the other people who are just trying to stay alive on this mysterious island and hopefully get off it. He builds an awesome wheel device because he's special and just knows how everything works, hoping to use it to get off the island. He embraces MysteriousWomanWithNoName for the last time, before she tries to kill the shit out of him.

- She also kills the shit out of all his people, all the INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WERE JUST MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS ON THE ISLAND. IOnlyThoughtOfOneName is pissed like any normal human would be. He is angry and wants revenge.

- Meanwhile MysteriousWomanWithNoName makes Jacob her successor, and he accepts even though he knows it is a terrible idea, because he has no spine and no personality and no will of his own.

- IOnlyThoughtOfOneName kills MysteriousWomanWithNoName in revenge, but he is remourseful. He shows human emotions like anyone would over killing someone they know well out of anger. Jacob though, doesn't care. He takes his brother and throws him into the cave he was told NEVER TO GO INTO BECAUSE IT IS WORSE THAN DYING.

- The smoke monster is born, but he still just wants to leave the island. He's not evil, he's satan, he's not some evil force. He is a guy who always wanted to leave the island because he found out the woman raising him killed his mother, and he wants nothing from this island, and his own brother threw him into a pit of light to turn him into a smoke monster.



Yeah, I think rooting for Smokie is a pretty damn good idea.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Well, that was underwhelming. And the S1 footage was frankly insulting to longtime viewers. HURR DURR REMEMBER DIS, AUDIENCE???

I think they needed that to make it clear that MiB and crazy mom are Adam and Eve. And frankly I enjoyed it. Its bringing the whole thing full circle. Made me remember what it was like to watch this show back in S1.


I get the feeling that Adam IS MiB's real name. I don't think they'd make it so overt at the end of the episode unless it was.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm sorry, but this is just a bunch of bullshit. If the island isn't important that than don't base every character's story on the importance of the island.

Can't sleep quite yet

The characters importance to the island is only related to finding Jacob's replacement. It's all character based, Jacob needs a replacement and gets these characters to where they need to be. They got to this magical island where shit goes down, but all that matters is that one of these characters is going to be asked to take the keys to the island.

I don't think that just because they need to be here means they need to know everything. Hell, we as an audience already know more than any of the Losties do. We have knowledge through flashbacks like tonights and Ab Aeterno that tell us things. For them, though, they are just a bunch of confused people trying to figure it out. And if we are seeing the story from their eyes (think of the first shot of the series), then wouldn't we only know what they know?

Their story is the important part. If they were to know about the island, we would know.

I don't mean to sound like a LOST apologist, because I'm not. I've called them out before and I was bitching and moaning proceeding this episode. But after sitting around and really thinking about it, I realized that there are more important things in the show than knowing the islands roots...as shitty as that may be to those who just want the mysteries solved (not that I blame anyone who wants that).

 

[Son of Godzilla]

he's been trolling Lost since the season 1 threads. He's the most pathetic fool I've seen on the Internet.

I've been trolling lost since before I watched it? Really? News to fucking me. I had never even seen the show before last year. And as I mentioned, this season had HAD HADHAHDAHDAHDHADHA HAD been good. Certainly much better than the waste of time that was Season 5. Some mis-steps here and there, maybe tumbling a bit recently, but still good.

But fuck that, they've goddamn blown it now.

And I agree the island isn't fucking important at all. Hell, even explaining Smokey was dumb.

Spoiler

Even showing Smokey was dumb.

The fact that they've gone to such desperate lengths to make the show *about* a pair of fuckwits nobody really cares about is just so... bad. Like, confusingly bad. Like, dear-god-Season-3's-character-derailment-a-thon was better thought out than this.

 

[Mifune]

I liked a lot of the ideas presented in this episode. I liked the idea that the island and its magical powers were around long before even Jacob came onto the scene. In a way, he's as much of a pawn as anyone else. I dig that, and it is consistent with the show I've been watching for six seasons.

I like that the essence of the island is deeply connected to the weird scientific properties of the island. Everything that has happened has that yellow glowing water as its source. Again, I like the consistency.

Just didn't care for the execution. Stiff acting, stiff dialogue, and some cheap looking sets. Oh well.

 

[Snuggles]

Yeah, I think rooting for Smokie is a pretty damn good idea.

...but Smokie threw Desmond down a well. Fuck that guy.

 

[fireside]

Can't sleep quite yet

The characters importance to the island is only related to finding Jacob's replacement. It's all character based, Jacob needs a replacement and gets these characters to where they need to be. They got to this magical island where shit goes down, but all that matters is that one of these characters is going to be asked to take the keys to the island.

I don't think that just because they need to be here means they need to know everything. Hell, we as an audience already know more than any of the Losties do. We have knowledge through flashbacks like tonights and Ab Aeterno that tell us things. For them, though, they are just a bunch of confused people trying to figure it out. And if we are seeing the story from their eyes (think of the first shot of the series), then wouldn't we only know what they know?

Their story is the important part. If they were to know about the island, we would know.

I don't mean to sound like a LOST apologist, because I'm not. I've called them out before and I was bitching and moaning proceeding this episode. But after sitting around and really thinking about it, I realized that there are more important things in the show than knowing the islands roots...as shitty as that may be to those who just want the mysteries solved (not that I blame anyone who wants that).

Why should we care about any of the Lostie's taking over the island if we don't know shit about it? Jin and Sun died for the island last episode and for what? Cause Jacob's mommy told him he had to protect it? Wow, their deaths took on a much deeper meaning now!

 

[oatmeal]

Another thing, to reiterate. I don't think Jacob's act CREATED Smokey. I think it just released him.

Also, think about the mother saying "THANK YOU" as she died. Now think of Jacob not caring about dying. I think neither of them really wanted the job they were handed, and welcomed death after so many years on the island.

Sure, Miles said that Jacob hoped Ben would change, but it doesn't change the fact that he didn't fight back because he knew what was up.

-

ALSO...all of the set reports for this episode said they were building sets from the year 23 AD...but that date never made the episode. I wonder why not.

 

[syoaran]

So let's go over what we learned in this "monumental" mythos episode:

- IOnlyThoughtOfOneName kills MysteriousWomanWithNoName in revenge, but he is remourseful. He shows human emotions like anyone would over killing someone they know well out of anger. Jacob though, doesn't care. He takes his brother and throws him into the cave he was told NEVER TO GO INTO BECAUSE IT IS WORSE THAN DYING.

- The smoke monster is born, but he still just wants to leave the island. He's not evil, he's satan, he's not some evil force. He is a guy who always wanted to leave the island because he found out the woman raising him killed his mother, and he wants nothing from this island, and his own brother threw him into a pit of light to turn him into a smoke monster.



Yeah, I think rooting for Smokie is a pretty damn good idea.

Just re-watched the ep and it really does look like Jacob kills his brother on his last throw down. Corpse enters light, becomes darkness and MiB/Smokey is born. Smokey never had a mother, never had a brother - he's just evil that wants to escape and uses Jacob's brother's image as thats the first human form it had. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

IOnlyThoughtOfOneName

Iotoon.

I like it.

Also I will say that this season has made Jack into an actually enjoyable character. Both island and alterna-Jack, very goodly.

 

[infinityBCRT]

While I loved the episode (and felt absolutely heart broken about the separation of two brothers), I expected something grander. I expected the island to be some sort of linchpin of all existence (Dark Tower ), where one force seeks to destroy it, and another seeks to preserve it. Obviously, it didn't have to be that specifically, but I was expecting something big, and something that gave the overarching mythology some sort of context and meaning. Rather than "We don't know what the island really is, we don't know who our mother really is, but one of us wants to leave and one of us doesn't."

But the Island IS the linchpin of all existence. And its also about questioning what is the definition of good and evil. MiB's original motivations weren't evil but because he didn't care about destroying the light did that make him evil? Crazy mom was ruthless and killed everyone who may threaten the Island, but is she good because shes protecting all life?

We get to their origins story and now we learn that they know just as much as we do.

I think the line by crazy mom near the start of the episode where she says "every answer brings another question" is the reason why they decided to go this way. If they keep on explaining things people will keep on asking more questions and keep trying to poke holes into everything. And we definitely don't want to get down to the midi-chlorian level of explanation do we? That seems to ruin the intrigue for most people.

 

[oatmeal]

Why should we care about any of the Lostie's taking over the island if we don't know shit about it? Jin and Sun died for the island last episode and for what? Cause Jacob's mommy told him he had to protect it? Wow, their deaths took on a much deeper meaning now!

As I said in my novel, I think we will learn more. When the time is right (the candidate taking Jacob's role), I'm sure we'll learn more.

If I'm wrong, then yeah, that would suck.

But we don't know about the island and it's secrets because the characters don't. Do you really think we should be an omniscient presence that knows everything that our characters don't? I think that form of dramatic irony works in certain cases (it certainly builds tension in horror movies), but in a show where the secrets and the information presented is so controlled and so vital to the end game, we should only know as much as the characters we've been with since the beginning know.

 

[UraMallas]

But we don't know about the island and it's secrets because the characters don't. Do you really think we should be an omniscient presence that knows everything that our characters don't? I think that form of dramatic irony works in certain cases (it certainly builds tension in horror movies), but in a show where the secrets and the information presented is so controlled and so vital to the end game, we should only know as much as the characters we've been with since the beginning know.

This is a good point.

 

[Solid Moustache]

Another thing, to reiterate. I don't think Jacob's act CREATED Smokey. I think it just released him.

Also, think about the mother saying "THANK YOU" as she died. Now think of Jacob not caring about dying. I think neither of them really wanted the job they were handed, and welcomed death after so many years on the island.

Sure, Miles said that Jacob hoped Ben would change, but it doesn't change the fact that he didn't fight back because he knew what was up.

-

ALSO...all of the set reports for this episode said they were building sets from the year 23 AD...but that date never made the episode. I wonder why not.

The huts lol?

 

[Ferrio]

But the Island IS the linchpin of all existence. And its also about questioning what is the definition of good and evil. MiB's original motivations weren't evil but because he didn't care about destroying the light did that make him evil? Crazy mom was ruthless and killed everyone who may threaten the Island, but is she good because shes protecting all life?

Actually I think she realized that she was no longer good and needed to be killed, hence the hurried passing to torch to Jacob.

 

[duckroll]

Just re-watched the ep and it really does look like Jacob kills his brother on his last throw down. Corpse enters light, becomes darkness and MiB/Smokey is born. Smokey never had a mother, never had a brother - he's just evil that wants to escape and uses Jacob's brother's image as thats the first human form it had. Just throwing that out there.

I really don't think so. The purpose of the episode is to reveal the past of Smokie and Jacob. If Smokie is not Jacob's nameless brother, then the entire episode has been even more utterly pointless. Seriously. Even the PRESS RELEASE says "Locke's motivations are finally revealed."

 

[thebagofsand]

the hell!? Is that Welliver and Pellegrino?? :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfpBFYn-Jxw

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Midichlorians actually seem a step above a long forgotten character coming back to tell everyone the long forgotten mystery of the trees rustling is actually caused by a spiritual blackhole that latches on to nearby ghosts.

Things are long past preserving the mystery, now it's just being obnoxious holding stupid shit like somebody's fucking name over the audience's head.

 

[kinoki]

Yeah, I think rooting for Smokie is a pretty damn good idea.

It's the whole Kain and Abel story again. If you really take time to read the passage from the bible you'll most likely be sympathetic of Kain who thought that God and his muddled rules were bonkers. So he tried to defy all of those rules and got punished for it. So, basicly this reads like that with a little less God.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I don't understand people saying the idea of a 'white light cave' is fine, and that it's consistent with the show's other questions and mysteries. The point some people are trying to make (myself included) is that the show has led us to believe there would be a LOGICAL BASE from which the mysteries have been built upon. And "magic light" does not equal an answer, it equals a reason. And those are two completely different things.

I don't think the magic light and a scientific explanation are mutually exclusive. If you've been following the shows theories, people have been deducing all along that these pockets of energy across the Island are a) something to do with electromagnetism and b) some sort of gateway into another dimension. Nothing in this episode negates that.

 

[oatmeal]

The huts lol?

I'm never going to sleep :lol

I'm assuming htat little village was what they were referring to. But the show never set a timeline for the characters and I'm not sure why. Ab Aeterno had dates, this one didn't. It was obviously in the past, but we don't know how far. I just assume 23 AD, since that's what the set reports said.

 

[duckroll]

It's the whole Kain and Abel story again. If you really take time to read the passage from the bible you'll most likely be sympathetic of Kain who thought that God and his muddled rules were bonkers. So he tried to defy all of those rules and got punished for it. So, basicly this reads like that with a little less God.

No, Cain is never sympathetic. I don't know what Bible you read, but Cain didn't think that God's muddled rules were bonkers. He was jealous of his brother and took him out into the wilderness and killed him in cold blood. He then lied when God asked what he had done with his brother. Murder + deceit. I don't see what you're trying to say here at all. Murder and deceit sounds like what MysteriousWomanWithNoName did the entire episode!

 

[Mifune]

I'm sorry, but this is just a bunch of bullshit. If the island isn't important that than don't base every character's story on the importance of the island.

I think this episode showed how important the island is. Even Jacob is its bitch.

 

[Snuggles]

Oh yeah so what's the deal with babby Jacob being on the present time island, some people can see him and some don't.

 

[fireside]

As I said in my novel, I think we will learn more. When the time is right (the candidate taking Jacob's role), I'm sure we'll learn more.

If I'm wrong, then yeah, that would suck.

This episode was my last straw. It broke.

But we don't know about the island and it's secrets because the characters don't. Do you really think we should be an omniscient presence that knows everything that our characters don't? I think that form of dramatic irony works in certain cases (it certainly builds tension in horror movies), but in a show where the secrets and the information presented is so controlled and so vital to the end game, we should only know as much as the characters we've been with since the beginning know.

But we already know more about the island than the Losties.

 

[Ferrio]

"Locke's motivations are finally revealed."

And those motivations are exactly the same thing since S1.... to get off the island. Why, cause it's home.... always thought it was something sinister... nope... just fuck this island I want off...

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I really don't think so. The purpose of the episode is to reveal the past of Smokie and Jacob. If Smokie is not Jacob's nameless brother, then the entire episode has been even more utterly pointless. Seriously. Even the PRESS RELEASE says "Locke's motivations are finally revealed."

Not to mention it defies the show's inner logic about them not being able to hurt each other. Not that I'd put a whole lot of faith in that.

 

[duckroll]

Oh yeah so what's the deal with babby Jacob being on the present time island, some people can see him and some don't.

Life, death, rebirth.

 

[Lakitu]

This episode was on the level of Stranger in a Strange Land

Lol, wow you are quite a ridiculous person indeed.

Disappointing as this ep may be, please don't compare that pos episode to this. This is like Walkabout in comparison.

 

[Panda Bear]

I know it's a minor thing, but I am just so annoyed that MIB doesn't have a name. It's the most impractical fucking thing ever. And it perfectly epitomizes the way a lot of the mythological elements and mysteries of this show have been handled. The fans speculate about it non-stop, many times bringing up theories that are quite intriguing, and it turns out in the end, the writers don't even really have an answer for it.

 

[Clevinger]

He's not evil, he's satan, he's not some evil force. He is a guy who always wanted to leave the island because he found out the woman raising him killed his mother, and he wants nothing from this island, and his own brother threw him into a pit of light to turn him into a smoke monster.



Yeah, I think rooting for Smokie is a pretty damn good idea.

Why did he kill Eko? And has it ever been even hinted at why Ben could summon him to massacre a bunch of soldiers?

 

[fireside]

I think this episode showed how important the island is. Even Jacob is its bitch.

And if Lost has told us anything, it's that when one character is shown to be the bitch of another, that person is also the bitch of someone else. I wonder who the Island is the bitch of.

 

[oatmeal]

This episode was my last straw. It broke.


But we already know more about the island than the Losties.

That sucks dude. I can't imagine giving up on 6 amazing seasons because of some bad info (or lack of). Even if the end game is disappointing, is that enough to sour 6 years of brilliant TV? Stephen King is known to be one of the best authors of our time, but the man really struggles with closing out his books.

Take IT for example, brilliant (and I MEAN BRILLIANT) book. Fucked up ending, but it doesn't screw up the experience at all. It's the journey, not the ending.

And yes, we know a bit more than them already. We don't know much more, we just know how the statue broke, some of the time frames, and that's about it. We and they are not exactly beacons of knowledge.

 

[seady]

Smokey Kid looks like Zac Efron

 

[Panda Bear]

Why did he kill Eko? And has it ever been even hinted at why Ben could summon him to massacre a bunch of soldiers?

Because at that time there wasn't any such thing as MIB. The writers hadn't decided what the Smoke Monster was yet.

 

[oatmeal]

I know it's a minor thing, but I am just so annoyed that MIB doesn't have a name. It's the most impractical fucking thing ever. And it perfectly epitomizes the way a lot of the mythological elements and mysteries of this show have been handled. The fans speculate about it non-stop, many times bringing up theories that are quite intriguing, and it turns out in the end, the writers don't even really have an answer for it.

I agree 100%. It is total bullshit.

He lived 40 years (they were 10ish when they split up, and he said it had been 30 years) and they never said his name...yet Jacob's name was thrown around like Kates reputation.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Why did he kill Eko? And has it ever been even hinted at why Ben could summon him to massacre a bunch of soldiers?

I've always assumed that he was literally the security system of the island until Jacob was killed, which set him free to do whatever he wanted.

 

[duckroll]

That sucks dude. I can't imagine giving up on 6 amazing seasons because of some bad info (or lack of). Even if the end game is disappointing, is that enough to sour 6 years of brilliant TV? Stephen King is known to be one of the best authors of our time, but the man really struggles with closing out his books.

Take IT for example, brilliant (and I MEAN BRILLIANT) book. Fucked up ending, but it doesn't screw up the experience at all. It's the journey, not the ending.

And yes, we know a bit more than them already. We don't know much more, we just know how the statue broke, some of the time frames, and that's about it. We and they are not exactly beacons of knowledge.

I read Dark Tower until the last book, and stopped reading because it became a piece of shit. I no longer gave a shit about any of the characters, or the story, because the final book itself was so bad. Book 4 was pretty awful too, I almost stopped reading right there.

It figures that Dalton would like King so much, since they share the same level of incompetence.

I've always assumed that he was literally the security system of the island until Jacob was killed, which set him free to do whatever he wanted.

Whatever any fan of Lost assumes or theorizes is probably better than the real answers. It has happened every single time now.

 

[oatmeal]

Because at that time there wasn't any such thing as MIB. The writers hadn't decided what the Smoke Monster was yet.

I don't know if I believe this. Since Ben is the loophole that MIB was exploiting, I think he was being 'summoned' not by the drainage thing, but by necessity. He knew that Ben needed him so he acted as if he was being controlled by Ben.

The whole thing with Ben killing Jacob was an incredibly long con. I don't imagine that smokey was what Ben thought he was, but smokey allowed himself to be manipulated (so to speak) to make Ben believe he was in control.