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TENET Bombs in the US (Only Made $12 Million) Hollywood in Panic

Aug 28, 2019
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Guys, I'm not going to argue this with people who haven't even seen it. Lots of people said The Thing was just an empty vehicle for gore effects when it first released, I don't really care what "lots of people" say.

I didn't hate Tenet but, CHRIST, I have no idea what the fuck it was all about!
The future is a disaster, people in the future create an algorithm that will cause the Earth to go backwards in time and heal itself from whatever is wrong. One of the people behind this (this film's Oppenheimer) realizes this solution might end humanity, everything. This person hides the algorithm in pieces in the past, Russian bad guy finds a piece and spends the rest of his time looking for the rest, with the "bad guys" in the future helping him. The Protagonist begins working with the Russian because he's their only lead (he manufactures the weird bullets that have been getting inverted), he finds out the Russian has a hold over his wife because she sold him a forged painting. He attempts to help her by recovering the forged painting but instead finds a device for inverting and someone comes through and attacks him. Russian guy knew about the painting plan, drops it in front of her to let her know she still belongs to him. Protagonist hatches plan to get on Russian's good side by helping him get plutonium, the idea being as dangerous as plutonium may be they're trying to avert the end of the world. They don't realize it isn't plutonium, but part of the algorithm. After a disastrous car chase the Protagonist witnesses Russian dude's wife shot with inverted bullet and the only way to save her is to invert her and then eventually revert her to normal. Also, this is his chance to stop the Russian. Instead his actions cause the algorithm to fall into the Russian's lap. They need to revert the Russian's wife to normal and know where to do it, at the airport where they crashed a plane, the chaos being a good cover. This is where you find out he was fighting himself in the earlier scene. I've only seen it once so I get a little hazy here... basically they need to stop him from detonating a bomb that sets off the algorithm, the bomb is set to go when he dies hence the fancy watch the Russian is wearing. The future wife pretends to be the past wife to stall him while TENET tries to stop the algorithm from going off, they know WHERE it's going off because they recorded the explosion in the past, the same day the Opera house attack occurred. This sequence is probably the most confusing sequence for people but honestly if you get past the logistics of the action sequence all you need to know is that they separate the algorithm from the bomb before it explodes. If there's any other questions I'll answer them.
 
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Lots of people saying "I couldn't hear the words" is a bit different than "this movie is just a gorefest" from a handful of critics
Are you going to see the movie before arguing this with me? I have no problem talking to people about their personal experiences but if you haven't even had one with the film you're just here to argue and I'm not really interested. Wait for video, you'll hear it fine, every Nolan film that has had this complaint translates fine to video (or less than fine if you PREFER it this way like I do)
 

Nymphae

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Are you going to see the movie before arguing this with me?
No I'm not arguing about anything and I don't know why you're being so defensive about it. Almost every impression I've read, several from very big fans of Nolan, mention this as an issue but I guess everyone just doesn't get why it's awesome to not hear dialog in a thriller with a lot of exposition that you want to hear.
 
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No I'm not arguing about anything and I don't know why you're being so defensive about it. Almost every impression I've read, several from very big fans of Nolan, mention this as an issue but I guess everyone just doesn't get why it's awesome to not hear dialog in a thriller with a lot of exposition that you want to hear.
What does that mean to me? 4 out of 5 people you know felt this way? It means nothing to me. I understood the film fine and caught most dialogue, what I prefer is the sound mix that favors the action/soundtrack to dialogue, it's one of the loudest movies I've ever seen and it was part of what made it an exciting, anxiety-inducing experience. The dialogue sometimes being muddled in the mix isn't what made the mixing great, it's just a side effect but again, Nolan has SPECIFICALLY SAID he doesn't want dialogue to be the only way of getting people to understand a film.
 
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Nymphae

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What does that mean to me? 4 out of 5 people you know felt this way? It means nothing to me. I understood the film fine and caught most dialogue, what I prefer is the sound mix that favors the action/soundtrack to dialogue, it's one of the loudest movies I've ever seen and it was part of what made it an exciting, anxiety-inducing experience. The dialogue sometimes being muddled in the mix isn't what made the mixing great, it's just a side effect but again, Nolan has SPECIFICALLY SAID he doesn't want dialogue to be the only way of getting people to understand a film.
Ah, the vaunted auteur hath spoken. If you didn't like the fact that you couldn't hear dialog, you didn't get it and don't deserve this man's art.
 
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FemdomFilmFan

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Guys, I'm not going to argue this with people who haven't even seen it. Lots of people said The Thing was just an empty vehicle for gore effects when it first released, I don't really care what "lots of people" say.



The future is a disaster, people in the future create an algorithm that will cause the Earth to go backwards in time and heal itself from whatever is wrong. One of the people behind this (this film's Oppenheimer) realizes this solution might end humanity, everything. This person hides the algorithm in pieces in the past, Russian bad guy finds a piece and spends the rest of his time looking for the rest, with the "bad guys" in the future helping him. The Protagonist begins working with the Russian because he's their only lead (he manufactures the weird bullets that have been getting inverted), he finds out the Russian has a hold over his wife because she sold him a forged painting. He attempts to help her by recovering the forged painting but instead finds a device for inverting and someone comes through and attacks him. Russian guy knew about the painting plan, drops it in front of her to let her know she still belongs to him. Protagonist hatches plan to get on Russian's good side by helping him get plutonium, the idea being as dangerous as plutonium may be they're trying to avert the end of the world. They don't realize it isn't plutonium, but part of the algorithm. After a disastrous car chase the Protagonist witnesses Russian dude's wife shot with inverted bullet and the only way to save her is to invert her and then eventually revert her to normal. Also, this is his chance to stop the Russian. Instead his actions cause the algorithm to fall into the Russian's lap. They need to revert the Russian's wife to normal and know where to do it, at the airport where they crashed a plane, the chaos being a good cover. This is where you find out he was fighting himself in the earlier scene. I've only seen it once so I get a little hazy here... basically they need to stop him from detonating a bomb that sets off the algorithm, the bomb is set to go when he dies hence the fancy watch the Russian is wearing. The future wife pretends to be the past wife to stall him while TENET tries to stop the algorithm from going off, they know WHERE it's going off because they recorded the explosion in the past, the same day the Opera house attack occurred. This sequence is probably the most confusing sequence for people but honestly if you get past the logistics of the action sequence all you need to know is that they separate the algorithm from the bomb before it explodes. If there's any other questions I'll answer them.
Ah, listen, mate, thanks but I wasn't expecting anyone to write out an essay on the movie but thanks. I was just criticising the movie, not actually asking what it was about as such. IMO, no movie should be made only for those with a super-high IQ. The kind of person who can see a Rubik's Cube for the very first time ever in their lives and know instantly how to solve it in 5 seconds flat. As detailed as you tried to make that explanation, it still doesn't make much sense to me. For one thing, I know what an
algorithm
is. It's a
sequence of steps
. It's not some
physical, tangible object that can be broken up into pieces
. That made no sense to me. If it's an
actual object
, why call it an
"algorithm"
? But never mind. Don't try to answer that. As I've been typing this out, I've been reading your argument with Nymphae, and you're coming across as very defensive, pretentious, and arrogant. I'm on their side. So if ya wanna ignore me too now, go ahead. I'm not gonna waste time arguing with you.

I missed some dialogue too but it didn’t meaningfully impact the experience.
It pretty much destroyed the experience for me. I literally could not make out about 80% of what anyone was saying.
 
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Ulysses 31

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I missed some dialogue too but it didn’t meaningfully impact the experience.
You can say that in hindsight but in the moment, people might get stuck with a nagging feeling that they might be missing important information which can drag the experience down.
 
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Now you're putting words in my mouth. Ya wanna quote me, quote what I said, not what you're choosing to read into what I said. In other words, fuck off.
Yeah, I know being dumb can persist into adulthood but I don't really think you need a high IQ to enjoy TENET? It's a Mission Impossible movie with time travel. Please don't watch anything actually made for intellectuals any time in your life.
 

hariseldon

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So Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie is fighting the good fight, and that's nice for him, but audio mixing is actually a bit of an issue. There are quite a few disabilities where this can make it really hard to understand what's going on, and these are people who can cope just fine with everyday conversation and 90% of films, but when sounds are muddy and mixed together badly it can make it impossible. Certainly autistic people are going to be left in the cold.
 
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So Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie is fighting the good fight, and that's nice for him, but audio mixing is actually a bit of an issue. There are quite a few disabilities where this can make it really hard to understand what's going on, and these are people who can cope just fine with everyday conversation and 90% of films, but when sounds are muddy and mixed together badly it can make it impossible. Certainly autistic people are going to be left in the cold.
It's the same mixing he had for Dunkirk, Interstellar, TDKR, Inception. The complaint has gotten a bit more prevalent because there's more DOLBY theaters and more people going to IMAX. In a regular theater it's less noticeable and on video it's not even there anymore unless your sound system is amazing but even then you have control over the levels you don't have in theaters. The IMAX experience of these films is Nolan's preferred way to experience them and for some people (ME) it's their preferred way as well. The first gunshot heard in the film is so loud I thought an actual gun had gone off, that's what I want. I want loud, I want anxiety-inducing action. There are theaters with CC, headphones, etc. and you can wait for video, I don't understand why it's something to spend so much time complaining about.
 
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FemdomFilmFan

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Yeah, I know being dumb can persist into adulthood but I don't really think you need a high IQ to enjoy TENET? It's a Mission Impossible movie with time travel. Please don't watch anything actually made for intellectuals any time in your life.
mother of christ, you're a prick! I was hoping to get through one day without having to put anyone on my ignore list but life's just a shithouse, ain't it?

So Explosive Zombie Explosive Zombie is fighting the good fight, and that's nice for him, but audio mixing is actually a bit of an issue. There are quite a few disabilities where this can make it really hard to understand what's going on, and these are people who can cope just fine with everyday conversation and 90% of films, but when sounds are muddy and mixed together badly it can make it impossible. Certainly autistic people are going to be left in the cold.
I wouldn't say that. Movies are hardly worth fighting over. But I'm one to talk. Putting a guy on my ignore list because of the prickish way he talks to me about movies.
 

Nymphae

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It's the same mixing he had for Dunkirk, Interstellar, TDKR, Inception. The complaint has gotten a bit more prevalent because there's more DOLBY theaters and more people going to IMAX. In a regular theater it's less noticeable and on video it's not even there anymore unless your sound system is amazing but even then you have control over the levels you don't have in theaters. The IMAX experience of these films is Nolan's preferred way to experience them and for some people (ME) it's their preferred way as well. The first gunshot heard in the film is so loud I thought an actual gun had gone off, that's what I want. I want loud, I want anxiety-inducing action. There are theaters with CC, headphones, etc. and you can wait for video, I don't understand why it's something to spend so much time complaining about.
Who's spending a lot of time complaining about it specifically? People are mentioning it impacted their experience and you come along with "uh it's supposed to be that way people who complain about the sound mix don't deserve Nolan's art", why should it matter to you if other people found it hard to hear?
 

hariseldon

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mother of christ, you're a prick! I was hoping to get through one day without having to put anyone on my ignore list but life's just a shithouse, ain't it?

I wouldn't say that. Movies are hardly worth fighting over. But I'm one to talk. Putting a guy on my ignore list because of the prickish way he talks to me about movies.
I may have been being a tad sarcastic.
 
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Who's spending a lot of time complaining about it specifically? People are mentioning it impacted their experience and you come along with "uh it's supposed to be that way people who complain about the sound mix don't deserve Nolan's art", why should it matter to you if other people found it hard to hear?
I didn't say anything about who "deserves his art". That's you interpreting my posts the way you want to.

I think you evidence why it's worth caring about, don't you? You've decided they're right by simple virtue of the plurality of people saying it. Why should I sit and remain silent while people are convinced of something without finding out themselves?

The thread is full of people who WANT to not like the film, it's kind of hard to deal with, that one guy said he didn't understand so after I post a recap of it he goes "lol I didn't want to know" which is fucking awesome. Plenty of people have said they didn't get it on first viewing but then said "I need to see it again" instead of "the mixing is objectively bad, and it's a bad movie don't try to make me understand it please"
 
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deafmedal

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While there weren't any nearby showings for me in CA I did find a local XD showing near home tonight. Currently we are the only tix sold, if no one else is in the theater maybe I won't have to eat muh popcorn so slowly ;)

I don't feel like driving to Austin for an IMAX showing especially since the Bullock Theater is still closed, shame as I love watching IMAX showings there. Would be a damn shame to lose that format but hopefully as Hollywood makes the inevitable transition to digital delivery there will still be specialized theaters to cater to us folk who love IMAX and 35/70mm showings. Not everyone has the money or space for 5+ figure home setups plus some films just deserve to be seen in a large format.
 
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Nymphae

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I didn't say anything about who "deserves his art". That's you interpreting my posts the way you want to.
...most people who complain about the sound mixing don't deserve Nolan films.
Sounds like you saying people who complain about the sound mixing don't deserve Nolan films.

I think you evidence why it's worth caring about, don't you? You've decided they're right by simple virtue of the plurality of people saying it.
I don't follow you, no one here is going to great lengths to bitch about it, it's simply one thing many many people are commenting on that hampered the experience for them, and you're coming in with huge paragraphs defending the mix clearly triggered that people don't see it the way you did.

I'm not saying anyone is right, and you're not even saying they're wrong when you're saying "it's supposed to be that way", "so what if some dialog can be missed you're supposed to learn in other ways as well". I'm just saying I've seen the complaint enough to assume there likely is something of an issue with hearing dialog, and that would bother me personally assuming it's correct, which I don't really see any reason to doubt given everyone saying the same thing basically.
 
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FemdomFilmFan

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Sounds like you saying people who complain about the sound mixing don't deserve Nolan films.



I don't follow you, no one here is going to great lengths to bitch about it, it's simply one thing many many people are commenting on that hampered the experience for them, and you're coming in with huge paragraphs defending the mix clearly triggered that people don't see it the way you did.

I'm not saying anyone is right, and you're not even saying they're wrong when you're saying "it's supposed to be that way", "so what if some dialog can be missed you're supposed to learn in other ways as well". I'm just saying I've seen the complaint enough to assume there likely is something of an issue with hearing dialog, and that would bother me personally assuming it's correct, which I don't really see any reason to doubt given everyone saying the same thing basically.
Is he still blathering on? Sad, isn't it?
 
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Sounds like you saying people who complain about the sound mixing don't deserve Nolan films.



I don't follow you, no one here is going to great lengths to bitch about it, it's simply one thing many many people are commenting on that hampered the experience for them, and you're coming in with huge paragraphs defending the mix clearly triggered that people don't see it the way you did.

I'm not saying anyone is right, and you're not even saying they're wrong when you're saying "it's supposed to be that way", "so what if some dialog can be missed you're supposed to learn in other ways as well". I'm just saying I've seen the complaint enough to assume there likely is something of an issue with hearing dialog, and that would bother me personally assuming it's correct, which I don't really see any reason to doubt given everyone saying the same thing basically.
"Most"

Again, the only scenes I remember having trouble hearing dialogue during were action scenes, most dialogue is very perfunctory when people are just yelling at each other during a shoot-out or car chase. All the important dialogue is usually between two people in a room with nothing booming in the background. In between the set pieces are lots of scenes of people talking on trains, in restaurants, in rooms, etc. There is one scene where they're wearing masks and on the water but that scene had nothing to do with explaining the high concept stuff. Every scene involving explaining the high concept ideas is just people in a room talking to each other, the action scenes the score/action overbear the dialogue, but the dialogue isn't that important during those scenes. I keep saying it over and over but the key to people understanding the film wasn't in the scenes where the dialogue is hard to hear.
 
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Most what? Please say it so I don't have to interpret incorrectly.
I wasn't saying everyone and I don't even 100% mean it, but honestly when people complain about one of the best aspects of the film it draws certain reactions out of me, still remember people complaining about the score for Interstellar, like holy shit.
 

Nymphae

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I wasn't saying everyone and I don't even 100% mean it, but honestly when people complain about one of the best aspects of the film it draws certain reactions out of me, still remember people complaining about the score for Interstellar, like holy shit.
Just strikes me as an odd thing to get bent out of shape about, people saying they couldn't hear the spoken dialog as much as they would like. It's not criticizing a score, it's saying I can't literally understand fundamental aspects of the storytelling at many points.
 
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Just strikes me as an odd thing to get bent out of shape about, people saying they couldn't hear the spoken dialog as much as they would like. It's not criticizing a score, it's saying I can't literally understand fundamental aspects of the storytelling at many points.
One of the people complaining about it in this thread just lol'd me when I tried explaining the film to him. "I just wanted to complain about the movie". If people genuinely are interested in what was going on in the film and the sound mixing was a problem for that that isn't how they behave. Same thing with Inception, years later I run into someone who claims they didn't understand it, try explaining it to them and they clearly don't WANT to understand it. You have to separate the people who WANT to dislike something from the people watching it in earnest. Some of those earnest people have the same complaint, they're worth my time but not people who just want to keep their mind shut.
 

Liamario

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It's literally louder in IMAX. I cited seeing it in IMAX because the "problem" is exacerbated there. With TDK the articles were about how they switched from IMAX cameras during dialogue scenes because of how loud everything is when filmed in IMAX meaning dialogue could get drowned out. After TDK more and more Nolan films stopped switching from IMAX, though even TENET occasionally swaps to regular film like when he's talking with Michael Caine, the only dialogue that passed people by would be things shouted back and forth in action scenes, which is fine. I'm fully aware people are complaining about this, but they're wrong. Anyone thinking there was a line of dialogue they missed that was the "key" to understanding TENET is full of it, you either got it or you didn't, try seeing it again. I'm not even joking about them deserving a sound mixing Oscar or "trolling", action movies should be loud, the things I wanted to hear were loud, the audio experience of TENET is as exciting as the visual one as a result.

Paradoxically people complain about too much expository dialogue in Nolan films while also complaining they didn't "get" the film because they missed a line of dialogue... either you can "get it" without all the dialogue being audible or not, but many people want it both ways. I honestly think the average psuedo-intellectual when seeing something like say Inception, hears the explanation and says "Oh... I probably could have figured that out, I didn't need that dialogue" when the truth is without that dialogue they would say "it was too confusing". Some people think it's Nolan taking criticism to heart but again... since Inception his films have been this way, Inception got away with it easier because of how many non-noisy scenes of exposition it has (which is because it's framed as a heist film with planning scenes, also because it's a movie about movie-making and we're seeing how a movie would be planned as well) versus a film like TENET which is far more aggressive in its pacing with less downtime, it's framed more like a Mission Impossible film where the down-time is small bits of planning/justification for action scenes that are akin' to franchises like Mission Impossible in how thin they are in justification and audience understanding.

The average MI film is some crap about a rabbit's foot or something and the audience is just along for the ride, he doesn't elevate it by eschewing the minimal justifications for the next big set piece but by making the effects of the doomsday device felt throughout the film (all the inversion) causing the possibility of calamity to seem more likely while also making the action far more interesting. He took a movie like Primer or Predestination and turned them into Mission Impossible films. To be fair, yes, most people wouldn't get those movies if lines of dialogue flew by them but Nolan isn't interested in having you 100% understand a concept, I've seen people complain he never even explains how reversal is possible, but he also never explained in Inception how the shared dreaming was possible. The film's establish what can be done and explain the rules, but not how.
I take on board what you're saying, but my own experience was that I could barely hear a lot of the dialogue. It wasn't so much understanding the concept, but actually hearing what was been said. I'll rewatch it when it's released at home, but not hearing what was being said was very frustrating.
 

Darkmakaimura

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Aww so I guess I haven't been to the movies this year then... if I make it until the end of the year this will be the first year in my memory I haven't been to see a movie.
On the bright side, we saw another Star Wars movie together like old times.

(I know we at least saw Attack of the Clones together on release day)
 
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In going tomorrow have a feeling it’s gonna be shit.

Will ketamine improve the viewing?
 
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Jtibh

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Fuck theaters.

Waiting in line for your popcorn waiting in line for tickets waiting in line for the doors to open cuz you want to be able to pick your seat first.

Listening to shitheads , have your seat kicked a hundred times....

For 2 people alone is like 40 bucks.

Last movie i saw was the joker . And no one got it. Making shitty remarks walking out and just acting like 10 year olds.

At home i can have the same for a lot less with not having to stress out about retards.

Hollywood is dead. Movies are shit. Either the 10th superhero movie or some garbage with leftist agenda.
 

Hinedorf

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Is it at all possible the movie really fucking sucks? Haven't seen it so dunno but even the smallest titles can gain a strong public opinion over time. Movie reminds me of Inception which is a visual masterpiece and a fuckjob story left with ambiguity.
 

sol_bad

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Catching new things every new viewing isn't what people want, they want it to be as shallow and vapid and easy to digest as possible on first viewing so they can instantly forget it when leaving the theater... you know... like those MCU films.
How dare you.
:messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying:

No but I read impressions from a handful of people and they all mentioned shitty sound mix. I just think if there's relevant dialog, I'd rather hear it than not hear it, "it's meant to be that way" is poor excuse I think.
I couldn't hear all the dialogue properly but I still completely understood the concept with no issues.
Depending on what cinema you go to will give various experiences. The 2nd time I saw it the voices were clearer but everything else about the audio had less pop and the bass was not as refined. Some people may think that the 2nd viewing had the better audio mix because the voices were clearer but to me the 2nd viewing had the worse audio mix because you lose everything else, the intense scenes weren't as intense.

Like at the start of the film, it's quiet and then as the heist (whatever it is) at the orchestra kicks in to gear the music kicks in to gear and it felt like a real gut punch in my first viewing. The music comes on so strong and loud that it's absolutely intensity at 11 from the get go. Then the beat of the music just keeps you in that adrenaline mode as the scene plays out.
The second viewing, the music wasn't as loud and bass not as present so it didn't have the same kick or intensity. The scene felt softer by comparison.
 
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Airola

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Is it at all possible the movie really fucking sucks? Haven't seen it so dunno but even the smallest titles can gain a strong public opinion over time. Movie reminds me of Inception which is a visual masterpiece and a fuckjob story left with ambiguity.
There was about nothing in Tenet's story that made me excited or interested in it. The opening was good and it was still interesting when the inversion thing was first told and shown, but after that it fell apart for me. In Finland we have subtitles so the sound getting over the dialog doesn't matter too much but for me the loud soundtrack was just distracting. I haven't cared for Nolan's sounds in any of his movies. Didn't care in Inception, didn't care in Interstellar, didn't care in Dunkirk. Interstellar I've only seen streamed to tv, but the others I've seen at theatre (including all Batmans). I have never felt that the soundtracks of any of them have been strong. If anything, they've been distractingly loud. I liked watching Memento, Batman Begins, Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Prestige, Inception, Interstellar and Dunkirk. Some more than others, some less than others. But this one was a boring mess.

I dislike modern action scenes very much in general. Too many cuts, too much things blowing up and too loud noises just make me drop off the film and look at it like a zombie until the spectacle is over. So I think that to appreciate this movie one has to have a general appreciation for loud experience, both visually and audibly.

So if one is not that much into the "audio experience" in the first place, AND dialog gets buried under the audio, I can't imagine the viewer to like the movie much at all.
 
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FemdomFilmFan

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How dare you.
:messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_loudly_crying:



I couldn't hear all the dialogue properly but I still completely understood the concept with no issues.
Depending on what cinema you go to will give various experiences. The 2nd time I saw it the voices were clearer but everything else about the audio had less pop and the bass was not as refined. Some people may think that the 2nd viewing had the better audio mix because the voices were clearer but to me the 2nd viewing had the worse audio mix because you lose everything else, the intense scenes weren't as intense.

Like at the start of the film, it's quiet and then as the heist (whatever it is) at the orchestra kicks in to gear the music kicks in to gear and it felt like a real gut punch in my first viewing. The music comes on so strong and loud that it's absolutely intensity at 11 from the get go. Then the beat of the music just keeps you in that adrenaline mode as the scene plays out.
The second viewing, the music wasn't as loud and bass not as present so it didn't have the same kick or intensity. The scene felt softer by comparison.
Nolan might do well to look up the meanings of "balance" and "happy medium".