Support NeoGAF

[ivysaur12]

I wouldn't say Community is in trouble yet. If they can stay above 1.5 in 18-49 they will probably make it. Parks is safe no matter what because of the Emmy nods.

It matters a lot less than the 18-49 demo, but both Community and Parks get extremely affluent viewers. So they have that going for them.

Not to mention both of them are close to stable syndication numbers. And Sony TV will literally do anything to save their shows from getting canceled at this point.

All they have left is:

- The Big C
- Boondocks
- Breaking In
- Community
- Happy Endings
- Rules of Engagement
- Breaking Bad
- Charlie's Angles
- Drop Dead Dive
- Franklin & Bash
- Justified
- Necessary Roughness
- Pan Am
- Unforgettable

Happy Endings could become a breakout hit in its second year (ABC believes in the show more than I've seen in any other network). Pan Am could be huge. And Unforgettable did okay. But they have very little content on TV right now that's big and they're fighting hard to make sure they can get syndication prospects out of what they have left. That means slashing licensing fees until you almost have to renew the show (see: 'Til Death).

 

[cory.]

Thursday ratings: The world hates everything you love

 

[ivysaur12]

Thursday ratings: The world hates everything you love

Just saw that. Love it, even though I think AVClub's reviewers have been less inconsistent with my tastes this year.

Also, my mom just texted me: "omg Ty, luved charli's angles. work for that show! "

No.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Charlie's Angels is fine. It will continue on unabated. You are all crazy haters.

Are you saying this based on the ratings or because you liked the show well enough? At what point (demo or overall viewers-wise), do you think the show will be in trouble?

 

[cory.]

Just saw that. Love it, even though I think AVClub's reviewers have been less inconsistent with my tastes this year.

Also, my mom just texted me: "omg Ty, luved charli's angles. work for that show! "

No.

I hate when my mom texts like that.

 

[Stumpokapow]

All they have left is:

- The Big C
- Boondocks
- Breaking In
- Community
- Happy Endings
- Rules of Engagement
- Breaking Bad
- Charlie's Angles
- Drop Dead Dive
- Franklin & Bash
- Justified
- Necessary Roughness
- Pan Am
- Unforgettable

Happy Endings could become a breakout hit in its second year (ABC believes in the show more than I've seen in any other network). Pan Am could be huge. And Unforgettable did okay. But they have very little content on TV right now that's big and they're fighting hard to make sure they can get syndication prospects out of what they have left. That means slashing licensing fees until you almost have to renew the show (see: 'Til Death).

Well, Drop Dead Diva is a lock for syndication and will be very lucrative when it gets there. It's the lightest, breeziest, most wispy procedural lawyer show imaginable. You could strip syndicate it on pretty much any network in the world to decent success.

I also expect The Big C to last long enough for syndication. Some of the content is a little syndication-unfriendly, but the basic premise of a woman coping with her cancer and her dysfunctional family will do well abroad.

But yeah, I think you're correct and we've already seen the fruits of your suggestion. Not just 'Til Death, but Rules of Engagement really only got renewed to bolster episode counts for strip syndication (Saturday night? LOOOOL)

 

[GoutPatrol]

Thursday ratings: The world hates everything you love

That title is the truest thing I have ever read in my life.

 

[Novid]

The CW if there friday shows do better then all of there other shows this week will be on FULL ON DISASTER MODE.

Xfactor will be ok... CBS is like Cena, same old shit.

NBC needs chuck now.

 

[ivysaur12]

The CW if there friday shows do better then all of there other shows this week will be on FULL ON DISASTER MODE.

Xfactor will be ok... CBS is like Cena, same old shit.

NBC needs chuck now.

The sad thing is... these drama ratings might drive Chuck to get a back 9 if it gets anywhere near what it was doing on Monday.

Like... what.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

The sad thing is... these drama ratings might drive Chuck to get a back 9 if it gets anywhere near what it was doing on Monday.

Like... what.

It better fucking not.

 

[cory.]

The sad thing is... these drama ratings might drive Chuck to get a back 9 if it gets anywhere near what it was doing on Monday.

Like... what.

The show's already had like 4 soft series finales.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

The show's already had like 4 soft series finales.

I hate to say this of Chuck, but I really hope the ratings go down further. In no way should it get a back 9. 13 and done.

 

[twinturbo2]

Added Playboy Club to the OP bombawatch. My frothing demand for cancellation increases. When we get the half/quarter hour audience breakdowns we should be able to see how many viewers gave up partway through the episode which might give us a better indication of which direction viewership is moving in.

I don't think The Playboy Club will last another episode. Two and done.

Pan-Am won't last ten episodes. Too expensive to produce, bad time slot (most everyone else will either finish watching the football game or the news), accusations of sexism in a non-ironic way... bomba am total.

The only shows I see surviving are 2 Broke Girls (good premise, CBS needs something to replace Two and a Half Men eventually), New Girl (lots of promise) and The X Factor (because Simon Cowell).

NBC's coming trainwreck will be awesome. Brandon Tartikoff ain't coming back to 30 Rock any time soon, sadly. Y'know, because he's dead and all.

 

[ivysaur12]

So, only 17% of people who watched A Gifted Man were in the demo. And I'm going to guess they weren't younger than 18...

Blue Bloods and CSI: NY did okay. Fringe is whatever since it doesn't even matter at this point beyond Fox not pulling the show early. If everything else on the CW wasn't flailing, I could see Nikita's order getting shrunk to 13.

I don't think The Playboy Club will last another episode. Two and done.

Pan-Am won't last ten episodes. Too expensive to produce, bad time slot (most everyone else will either finish watching the football game or the news), accusations of sexism in a non-ironic way... bomba am total.

The only shows I see surviving are 2 Broke Girls (good premise, CBS needs something to replace Two and a Half Men eventually), New Girl (lots of promise) and The X Factor (because Simon Cowell).

NBC's coming trainwreck will be awesome. Brandon Tartikoff ain't coming back to 30 Rock any time soon, sadly. Y'know, because he's dead and all.

If we had to go just be premiere numbers and how repeats have been doing, I would say:

- 2 Broke Girls
- New Girl
- Revenge
- Whitney
- Up All Night
- Unforgettable
- Person of Interest
- Ringer
- The Secret Circle

Will all get full season orders. I expect that Revenge will be the only drama that premiered this week on the big 4 that could make it to a second season. It's been repeating well, though is a bit older-skewing than ABC would like. Still, it's the highest rated new drama so far and is in a time slot that ABC has had huge issues with in the past. Barring a huge ratings plummet (which is a definite possibility), Revenge is probably safe.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

So, only 17% of people who watched A Gifted Man were in the demo. And I'm going to guess they weren't younger than 18...

Blue Bloods and CSI: NY did okay. Fringe is whatever since it doesn't even matter at this point beyond Fox not pulling the show early. If everything else on the CW wasn't flailing, I could see Nikita's order getting shrunk to 13.

It doesn't seem like, aside from some stuff on CBS and New Girl, any show is really doing that well this Fall. Is there any...reason? Are people just not interested in the new shows, or is general TV viewership down across the board or something?

 

[ivysaur12]

It doesn't seem like, aside from some stuff on CBS and New Girl, any show is really doing that well this Fall. Is there any...reason? Are people just not interested in the new shows, or is general TV viewership down across the board or something?

Combination of less compelling new shows and more selections due to cable. Viewership is up, there's just more choices.

It's one of the reasons Univsion is growing so quickly - the competition for Spanish programming is nothing compared to the competition for English programming.

And I would put Revenge as a mild success, at least so far. Sure, it had a monster lead-in, but it's the highest rated new-drama of the fall in a timeslot that has plagued ABC for some time (same with Thursdays at 8).

 

[ThisWreckage]

Network television, for the most part, is dreadful. Channels like HBO and AMC (to a lesser extent) have spoiled audiences. It also doesn't help that Pan Am and Playboy Club are insulting because they're trying to ride the coattails of Mad Men.

 

[Solo]

It also doesn't help that Pan Am and Playboy Club are insulting because they're trying to ride the coattails of Mad Men.

Nothing really insulting about it - Hollywood always follows trends, and Mad Men clones were inevitable. The shows will fail, not because they are clones, but because they aren't good.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Network television, for the most part, is dreadful. Channels like HBO and AMC (to a lesser extent) have spoiled audiences. It also doesn't help that Pan Am and Playboy Club are insulting because they're trying to ride the coattails of Mad Men.

Not really. As much as I love Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc, those shows barely get any ratings.

I believe Breaking Bad got a .7 in the demo last week.

 

[ivysaur12]

Network television, for the most part, is dreadful. Channels like HBO and AMC (to a lesser extent) have spoiled audiences. It also doesn't help that Pan Am and Playboy Club are insulting because they're trying to ride the coattails of Mad Men.

The Playboy Club was a failure, but pretty much doubled the ratings of Mad Men. So, no. Network television has to deal with over 100+ channels of competition. Compare that to even a decade ago. And now there's more scripted content on other channels. Quality aside, that's the majority of the reason for the gradual erosion of ratings. Having less-than-compelling programming doesn't help, either. But hey, favorites like Community and Parks and Recreation aren't exactly lighting up, while "dreadful" TV like NCIS is doing exceptionally well.

Also, AMC? Really? The have two creative hits. Then they have The Prisoners, Rubicon, The Killing, and Hell on Wheels. Not really batting 100. Plus, the have toilet ratings compared to the majority of broadcast television.

And Pan Am is a much better show that The Playboy Club. Guilty pleasure, but it definitely taps into the right type of 1960s fantasy. It's also completely on-brand for ABC, as opposed to some of their other endeavors.

 

[Esiquio]

Network television, for the most part, is dreadful. Channels like HBO and AMC (to a lesser extent) have spoiled audiences. It also doesn't help that Pan Am and Playboy Club are insulting because they're trying to ride the coattails of Mad Men.

HBO GO is absolutely amazing. Since Lost and 24 are done with, HBO is all I really have left (I JUST started watching Burn Notice on DVD)

 

[ConfusingJazz]

The Playboy Club was a failure, but pretty much doubled the ratings of Mad Men. So, no. Network television has to deal with over 100+ channels of competition.

I think a lot of critics were confused why the networks wanted to emulate a tv show, though very high quality, draws few viewers.

EDIT: A 0.8 in the demo for the finale last year.

 

[Irish]

It's a damn shame Free Agents isn't doing all that well. I really like it.

 

[ivysaur12]

I think a lot of critics were confused why the networks wanted to emulate a tv show, though very high quality, draws few viewers.

EDIT: A 0.8 in the demo for the finale last year.

The idea is that with a bigger budget + more marketing + having the gift of being one of the lower channels = success. It didn't for a variety of reasons for The Playboy Club (terrible critical draw, flailing NBC ratings, 10pm slot, somewhat of a niche genre making it a hard sell, etc.)

The Playboy Club wasn't going to do well.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

The idea is that with a bigger budget + more marketing + having the gift of being one of the lower channels = success. It didn't for a variety of reasons for The Playboy Club (terrible critical draw, flailing NBC ratings, 10pm slot, somewhat of a niche genre making it a hard sell, etc.)

The Playboy Club wasn't going to do well.

I got the idea, but the Walking Dead finale got better demo numbers then any NBC show this week.

Do I prefer The Walking Dead? Hell no, I only kinda paid attention during many of the episodes last year.

However, if I was an executive at a network? I would be working on all sorts of ways to get an action horror show on the air rather then a 1960s period piece.

 

[ivysaur12]

I got the idea, but the Walking Dead finale got better demo numbers then any NBC show this week.

Do I prefer The Walking Dead? Hell no, I only kinda paid attention during many of the episodes last year.

However, if I was an executive at a network? I would be working on all sorts of ways to get an action horror show on the air rather then a 1960s period piece.

Oh, me too :lol

 

[Clevinger]

I got the idea, but the Walking Dead finale got better demo numbers then any NBC show this week.

Do I prefer The Walking Dead? Hell no, I only kinda paid attention during many of the episodes last year.

However, if I was an executive at a network? I would be working on all sorts of ways to get an action horror show on the air rather then a 1960s period piece.

Yup. It was a purely idiotic business move. Shoulda went after that Walking Dead money.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Not really. As much as I love Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc, those shows barely get any ratings.

I believe Breaking Bad got a .7 in the demo last week.

Ratings don't mean a damn thing to me. I'm talking about quality. Compare the quality of some random NBC show to that of an HBO show and it's not even close.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Ratings don't mean a damn thing to me. I'm talking about quality. Compare the quality of some random NBC show to that of an HBO show and it's not even close.

Yeah, but that's not the point. You said audiences were spoiled, my point is "What audience?" Very few people watch the shows you love dearly that are on cable, thus can't be spoiled on quality tv.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Combination of less compelling new shows and more selections due to cable. Viewership is up, there's just more choices.

It's one of the reasons Univsion is growing so quickly - the competition for Spanish programming is nothing compared to the competition for English programming.

And I would put Revenge as a mild success, at least so far. Sure, it had a monster lead-in, but it's the highest rated new-drama of the fall in a timeslot that has plagued ABC for some time (same with Thursdays at 8).

Ah, that's interesting. Should the increased competition, online viewers, etc. make networks temper their expectations for what makes a show successful now?

However, if I was an executive at a network? I would be working on all sorts of ways to get an action horror show on the air rather then a 1960s period piece.

It took how long to get Mad Men copycats? 3 or 4 years? I'm sure TWD will get it's own imitators eventually.

 

[ivysaur12]

It took how long to get Mad Men copycats? 3 or 4 years? I'm sure TWD will get it's own imitators eventually.

I mean, they're developing two Jekyll and Hyde shows AND two Beauty and the Beast shows for next year. Zombies will have their time. Especially with World War Z coming out in theaters.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Yeah, but that's not the point. You said audiences were spoiled, my point is "What audience?" Very few people watch the shows you love dearly that are on cable, thus can't be spoiled on quality tv.

The audience with taste.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I mean, they're developing two Jekyll and Hyde shows AND two Beauty and the Beast shows for next year. Zombies will have their time. Especially with World War Z coming out in theaters.

God. >__<

Isn't CBS or someone also developing a modern day Sherlock Holmes series? (lol) Not that that's in the same zombie, fairytale, Jekyll and Hyde genre or anything.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I mean, they're developing two Jekyll and Hyde shows AND two Beauty and the Beast shows for next year. Zombies will have their time. Especially with World War Z coming out in theaters.

I wouldn't even have zombies. Just give an actor something to shoot at. If I were NBC? Hire Keifer Sutherland to shoot things. What are those things? No idea, but they will be shot.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I always thought a Ring/Grudge inspired action series could be cool to see on TV. Wouldn't have to be too expensive either, just some clever but cheap SFX.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

If I were NBC? Hire Keifer Sutherland to shoot things. What are those things? No idea, but they will be shot.

He's already shooting a new series for Fox. Brought to you by Tim Kring. (creator of Heroes, lol)

 

[ivysaur12]

I wouldn't even have zombies. Just give an actor something to shoot at. If I were NBC? Hire Keifer Sutherland to shoot things. What are those things? No idea, but they will be shot.

Kiefer Sutherland is already in Fox's midseason Touch, A NEW SHOW BY TIM KRING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE CONNECTED AND I'M SURE THIS WILL BE BETTER THAN THE LAST THREE SEASONS OF HEROES!

The audience with taste.

No, but... those audiences are minuscule and make almost no impression on broadcast shows. I don't understand the point you're trying to make. You say the reason that broadcast is failing is because audiences are spoiled. But broadcast networks still eclipse all other cable networks (save for ESPN) in ratings. So... what?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Kiefer Sutherland is already in Fox's midseason Touch, A NEW SHOW BY TIM KRING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE CONNECTED AND I'M SURE THIS WILL BE BETTER THAN THE LAST THREE SEASONS OF HEROES!

Season 1 of Heroes was still fantastic, so there's always hope, I guess?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Season 1 of Heroes was still fantastic, so there's always hope, I guess?

Season 1 was a fluke, and they had Bryan Fuller. Tim Kring is a hack.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Season 1 was a fluke, and they had Bryan Fuller. Tim Kring is a hack.

Ah, yeah, I totally forgot about dat Fuller magic. Haha, it was such a pain seeing him flit in and out of S3/4 D:

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Kiefer Sutherland is already in Fox's midseason Touch, A NEW SHOW BY TIM KRING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE CONNECTED AND I'M SURE THIS WILL BE BETTER THAN THE LAST THREE SEASONS OF HEROES!

Oh, well he will be available in the fall then.

Otherwise, no, my point was have someone shoot shit. The only thing NBC has going for them right now is Sunday Night Football, and I can't believe they aren't focusing on building their brand from that.

If they showed a commercial for an action TV show where the only focus was things getting shot, I am sure there is enough people who watch football that would be interested in that. I think it was proven that there was no cross audience between football and The Playboy Club.

No, but... those audiences are minuscule and make almost no impression on broadcast shows. I don't understand the point you're trying to make. You say the reason that broadcast is failing is because audiences are spoiled. But broadcast networks still eclipse all other cable networks (save for ESPN) in ratings. So... what?

I compare it to Oscar season and Blockbuster season. Cable is comparable to the winter in cinema, while network should be comparable to the summer in cinema. Granted, NBC is currently Pluto Nash.

 

[ivysaur12]

Ah, yeah, I totally forgot about dat Fuller magic. Haha, it was such a pain seeing him flit in and out of S3/4 D:

There was one episode in season three (when I was still subjecting myself to that torture) where Fuller managed to turn the worst character in the show (Ali Larter's weird twin) into one of the most sympathetic characters. In one episode. And then the rest went to shit.

To Kring's credit, the original concept of Heroes was to have a different set of characters every season. Each character group would be set in the same world, but there would be a different catastrophe each would try to solve. Obviously, when the show became a hit, this wasn't going to fly with NBC.

But a better showrunner could have made it work, even with the Writers' Strike going on. Kring couldn't.

I compare it to Oscar season and Blockbuster season. Cable is comparable to the winter in cinema, while network should be comparable to the summer in cinema. Granted, NBC is currently Pluto Nash.

Maybe. There's still a ton of shit on cable. Jersey Shore is one of the top shows in the demo (I enjoy Jersey Shore, but really). And while HBO and AMC have some amazing series, their top shows are some of their worst: True Blood and The Walking Dead.

A good show is a good show is a good show no matter where it is. We can take solace that the new NBC chair is a programming beast and poached most of his staff from Showtime. So there's that. Maybe their primetime hope isn't lost?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I mean, they're developing two Jekyll and Hyde shows AND two Beauty and the Beast shows for next year. Zombies will have their time. Especially with World War Z coming out in theaters.

I liked the BBC Jekyll from a few years ago. To bad it only ran for one season. It has a pretty good rating on imdb.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Maybe. There's still a ton of shit on cable. Jersey Shore is one of the top shows in the demo (I enjoy Jersey Shore, but really). And while HBO and AMC have some amazing series, their top shows are some of their worst: True Blood and The Walking Dead.

A good show is a good show is a good show no matter where it is. We can take solace that the new NBC chair is a programming beast and poached most of his staff from Showtime. So there's that. Maybe their primetime hope isn't lost?

Never said it was a perfect analogy

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I liked the BBC Jekyll from a few years ago. To bad it only ran for one season. It has a pretty good rating on imdb.

I'm pretty sure that was a miniseries. It was supposed to end after the first season.

 

[ivysaur12]

Ah, that's interesting. Should the increased competition, online viewers, etc. make networks temper their expectations for what makes a show successful now?



It took how long to get Mad Men copycats? 3 or 4 years? I'm sure TWD will get it's own imitators eventually.

Most of the hit shows today would have been on the bubble/flops 10-15 years ago.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So, question:

Fringe, Supernatural, Nikita, and Haven are all Friday shows I quite like a lot. How are they doing on Friday now that they've premiered? Are they safe or are the ratings down a lot?

 

[TheOddOne]

Just watched the "Revenge" pilot, cheesiness all-around but also surprisingly decent (Yeah, sounds weird).

Still have to watch "A Gifted Man", "Person of Interest", "The Playboy Club" and force myself to finish the "Ringer".

 

[GraveRobberX]

Just watched the "Revenge" pilot, cheesiness all-around but also surprisingly decent (Yeah, sounds weird).

Still have to watch "A Gifted Man", "Person of Interest", "The Playboy Club" and force myself to finish the "Ringer".

I'm in the same boat as you

Need to watch all those except Ringer, yuck

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I'm in the same boat as you

Need to watch all those except Ringer, yuck

Why do you force yourselves to watch shows that you don't like?