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[Stumpokapow]

Updated OP to reflect Free Agents is definitely past the point of no return.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

UGH H8r. Just die already.

Free Agents and Harry's Law. Bwahahahahaha

 

[ivysaur12]

Updated OP to reflect Free Agents is definitely past the point of no return.

Surprised it hasn't been pulled yet. I think they're waiting to see how Prime Suspect does before moves are made.

If Tuesday comedies to well on ABC, they could put a block there. Or Thursday at 8 (probably the better choice). OR start TGIF again (which Paul Lee wants to do).

 

[ivysaur12]

X-Factor up to a 4.1, which isn't bad.

Happy Endings down to a 3.1, but still leads its timeslot (and Cougar Town from last year) in the 18-34 (both men and women). I'm pretty sure it's the youngest skewing of the 5 ABC comedies (The Middle, Suburgatory, Modern Family, Happy Endings, Cougar Town).

Up All Night stays a 2.1. Yeesh, NBC.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Glad Up All Night dodged the death blow. I liked it wayyyy more than Free Agents. Sorry, Wife From Step Brothers!

 

[stuminus3]

I hate to say it, but I'm really glad New Girl is getting at least one full season. It's terrible, but my wife has a huge thing for the Deschanel sisters and thinks it's the greatest thing since Bones. :-/

I suffer thought it because sex.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Parenthood order upped by two episodes.

 

[bh7812]

Surprised it hasn't been pulled yet. I think they're waiting to see how Prime Suspect does before moves are made.

If Tuesday comedies to well on ABC, they could put a block there. Or Thursday at 8 (probably the better choice). OR start TGIF again (which Paul Lee wants to do).

Speaking of ABC and comedies, I had wanted to post here about how Paul Lee really wants to re-boot the TGIF block but was VERY hesitant to do so but since you've mentioned it, Ivysaur, I think it would definitely be ok to post what I wanted to

I think re-booting the TGIF block is a GREAT idea and I really hope Mr. Lee is able to pull it off! TGIF...for many, it WAS Friday night. It was the big thing people looked forward to every week. At least when I was growing up, (the height of the block's popularity pretty much stretched from the beginning of Junior High till the end of High School for me) for myself and many of my friends, it was what our Friday night plans centered around. Any plans to go out waited till 9pm, after the block was over. Granted, I doubt we'll ever see another Boy Meets World or Family Matters ever again but if they do this right and put some major effort into it I think they can come fairly close and get on at least one or two memorable shows that would probably have a good chance of lasting a while. I'll post just a few things I've read and heard concerning what they want to do where a re-booted TGIF block is concerned but will keep it short because I don't want this to start running wild with speculation...

This is all SUPPOSED, nothing definite or concrete!

-First, Mr. Lee supposedly wanted to re-boot the TGIF block this fall, 2011, but the higher-ups suggested and advised he wait until next Fall, 2012 to do it. This year is Desperate Housewives' final season and I wouldn't be surprised if Grey's Anatomy is pretty much in the same boat so they want to give them both a proper send off. They're wanting to put their effort this year into creating quality send-offs for those shows and if they had re-booted TGIF this Fall they would have had to give time and effort to both. If the reasoning for the 1 year delay is true, it makes sense and is doing right by the fans of Housewives and Greys.

-Secondly, "Last Man Standing", Tim Allen's return sitcom to ABC, is supposedly factoring in HUGE with the plans to re-boot the TGIF block. The plan is launch Tim Allen's show this year on Tuesday..if it does well it's supposedly getting moved to Friday next year and will anchor the new TGIF block. He has asked the network to set more fair target ratings numbers for the new show so hopefully they can get through it's first season and move it to Fridays in 2012. In August he said ABC is "A tighter, leaner ship" than it was when "Home Improvement" aired. So, that's why he asked the network to set realistic, fair target ratings numbers for it. It was not cheap to get Tim Allen back either from what I've read.

-What else would they put into the new TGIF block? Well, I'm reading John Stamos wants to do a "Full House" reboot-same concept, different name I'm guessing. The other 2 shows would be a total crapshoot to predict at this point. I've read and heard some of the things they want to do, and some of the shows that they are talking about for the new block but that's the part I want to leave out of this due to not wanting to turn this into pure "supposed and speculation". What I WILL say is what I'm reading and hearing sounds to me like they are taking the re-boot idea very seriously and are putting quite a bit of effort into it so we'll see what exactly plays out. When some of what I'm reading looks more concrete I'll post it.

Ivysaur, you seem to know a great deal about and follow the TV industry a great deal-would it be ok if I sent you a PM about something TV related, please? I wanted to be courteous and ask first

 

[Fantastical]

I watched The New Girl today.

What a piece of shit.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Speaking of ABC and comedies, I had wanted to post here about how Paul Lee really wants to re-boot the TGIF block but was VERY hesitant to do so but since you've mentioned it, Ivysaur, I think it would definitely be ok to post what I wanted to

Interesting. TGIF was big when I was growing up too, so it'd be interesting to see if that would work. Tim Allen's new show looks like shit though, and a Full House reboot sounds like a terrible idea.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

NBC’s Bob Greenblatt Not Rushing To Wield Cancellation Axe On ‘Playboy’, ‘Free Agents’.

Good for him on giving these shows a chance. I wish they would get cancelled, but I'm very curious to see if this more cable-like approach will work on NBC.

 

[cory.]

NBC’s Bob Greenblatt Not Rushing To Wield Cancellation Axe On ‘Playboy’, ‘Free Agents’.

Good for him on giving these shows a chance. I wish they would get cancelled, but I'm very curious to see if this more cable-like approach will work on NBC.

I'm reading this as "we have nothing better to do until February 5th."
Getting to see Free Agents longer is nice though.

 

[dead souls]

I'm reading this as "we have nothing better to do until February 5th."
Getting to see Free Agents longer is nice though.

Yep..

I'm all for giving moderately performing shows a few weeks to attempt to grow, but completely dead things like Playboy Club or Free Agents needed to be pulled off the schedule for the good of the network.

 

[tycoonheart]

I watched The New Girl today.

What a piece of shit.

I tried to watch some of Whitney last night and wow... how does a show like that even get greenlit? What a pile of horse manure.

 

[Zoe]

Is Whitney just about her and her guy trying to have sex? Cause that's the only thing the promos show.

 

[789shadow]

Conan's Tonight Show ratings were terrible too. He was just part of the problem.

And so was Leno's when he first started. Conan just got on the wrong side of NBC's dick sucking fest with Leno.

 

[planar1280]

2 broke girls is off my dvr list, What an awful awful show.

best new shows for me:


1. Person of Interest
2. ..... maybe terra nova

 

[ConfusingJazz]

2 broke girls is off my dvr list, What an awful awful show.

I gave it about 10 minutes, 5 of them were because of Kat Dennings.

 

[planar1280]

This year is awful. I really miss the days of 24, Lost, Fringe, on my dvr days

 

[alba]

So far the only new show I'm liking is Person of Interest :O

 

[cory.]

How To Be A Gentleman - 2.7
Person of Interest - 2.7
Charlie's Angels - 1.5
Whitney - 2.5
Prime Suspect - 1.5
Secret Circle - 0.9
The X Factor - 3.8

 

[RBH]

Prime Suspect - 1.5

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Charlie's Angels doesn't have Greenblatt to save it. bahaha

Prime Suspect would be dead, but if Free Agents and TPC can stay on air, than so can it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

How To Be A Gentleman - 2.7

Not that this is terrible, but this will clearly be CBS' lowest rated comedy.

Charlie's Angels - 1.5

Dead.

Prime Suspect - 1.5

Suspect it'll be dead.

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

NBC’s Bob Greenblatt Not Rushing To Wield Cancellation Axe On ‘Playboy’, ‘Free Agents’.

Good for him on giving these shows a chance. I wish they would get cancelled, but I'm very curious to see if this more cable-like approach will work on NBC.

I agree, it'd be really nice to see networks simply allow a show's produced episodes to run out rather than pulling them from the schedule. I don't see it ever happening, but we could have had four more Lone Star episodes that way.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I agree, it'd be really nice to see networks simply allow a show's produced episodes to run out rather than pulling them from the schedule. I don't see it ever happening, but we could have had four more Lone Star episodes that way.

Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.

1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".

2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.

Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.

* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.



I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:

People always say that networks should give more time to low rated shows because of, for example, Seinfeld.

It’s funny that no one ever kicks up a fuss about quality pilots that don’t get ordered to series, or quality spec scripts that don’t get ordered to pilot. Those need to be “given a chance” too, and many of them have much better odds of delivering solid ratings in the end than sticking by an apparent ratings dud. For every good show, there are many poor shows, and for every poor show, there are several pilots that didn’t even get the chance, and for every pilot, there are countless scripts that didn’t make it that far. If people were really concerned about missed opportunities, the chain starts much earlier than a low-rated first season of a critically mixed show.

It may be the case that sticking by shows occasionally works, but viewers aren’t asking networks to stick by shows because they genuinely believe it’ll work, they ask networks to stick by shows because they like the shows and don’t give a damn about ratings except to justify the continued existence of the shows they like.

And all of this is why the guys who write this site chalk this stuff up to “Fan Excuse Bingo”–it’s not that the arguments or true or not, it’s that they’re incredibly thin veneers for what the fan is really saying “Renew my favourite shows indefinitely and cancel all the stuff I don’t like”.

 

[Plinko]

-Secondly, "Last Man Standing", Tim Allen's return sitcom to ABC, is supposedly factoring in HUGE with the plans to re-boot the TGIF block. The plan is launch Tim Allen's show this year on Tuesday..if it does well it's supposedly getting moved to Friday next year and will anchor the new TGIF block. He has asked the network to set more fair target ratings numbers for the new show so hopefully they can get through it's first season and move it to Fridays in 2012. In August he said ABC is "A tighter, leaner ship" than it was when "Home Improvement" aired. So, that's why he asked the network to set realistic, fair target ratings numbers for it. It was not cheap to get Tim Allen back either from what I've read.

-What else would they put into the new TGIF block? Well, I'm reading John Stamos wants to do a "Full House" reboot-same concept, different name I'm guessing. The other 2 shows would be a total crapshoot to predict at this point. I've read and heard some of the things they want to do, and some of the shows that they are talking about for the new block but that's the part I want to leave out of this due to not wanting to turn this into pure "supposed and speculation". What I WILL say is what I'm reading and hearing sounds to me like they are taking the re-boot idea very seriously and are putting quite a bit of effort into it so we'll see what exactly plays out. When some of what I'm reading looks more concrete I'll post it.

I see this as a great idea. A Stamos-led Full House reboot sounds odd, though. How about rebooting Dinosaurs instead?

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.

1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".

2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.

Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.

* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.



I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:

Your posts are always so insightful.

So, with your 1 and 2 in mind, why would NBC keep these shows on the air if it hurts them so much? Is it just a case of them not having any other real options?

 

[Stumpokapow]

So, with your 1 and 2 in mind, why would NBC keep these shows on the air if it hurts them so much? Is it just a case of them not having any other real options?

NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.

NBC also has a new newsmagazine (think 20/20, 48 Hours, 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc) launching soon, but it's supposedly not ready just yet.

Besides launching midseason shows, a network's only real option is to run repeats of other shows. Repeats obviously underperform new episodes, so you need to pick a repeat of something popular. One problem is that NBC has nothing going on right now. Even their more popular shows remain pretty marginal, and many of them are serialized in a way that they wouldn't repeat well. So that basically leaves Law and Order repeats. Not so hot.

One of the reasons why NBC is so screwed is that they launched the Jay Leno Show, which involved cutting down the number of primetime hours they had (since they replaced time that was originally for primetime scripted shows with time for the new variety show). This meant cancelling extra shows to give space for it.. When the Conan/Jay stuff happened, and Conan left, the plan folded and suddenly they had tons of open spaces in their network show up. That's a hard thing for any network to deal with because it means rapidly ramping up the timetable and budget for development. It didn't help that NBC's development wasn't really doing all that well to begin with.

Bob Greenblatt is talented--well, everyone in the entertainment biz is talented until they failed and get recast as no talent losers like Ben Silverman and Bob Shaye--and so it's believed that his influence will help development since he comes from a development background, but he came in during the Comcast takeover after a lot of the development for this season was already done, so hard to say just yet.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.

I can confirm that SOMETHING was shooting on the roof of Silvercup last week. Don't know what else is going on in there these days.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.

NBC also has a new newsmagazine (think 20/20, 48 Hours, 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc) launching soon, but it's supposedly not ready just yet.

Besides launching midseason shows, a network's only real option is to run repeats of other shows. Repeats obviously underperform new episodes, so you need to pick a repeat of something popular. One problem is that NBC has nothing going on right now. Even their more popular shows remain pretty marginal, and many of them are serialized in a way that they wouldn't repeat well. So that basically leaves Law and Order repeats. Not so hot.

One of the reasons why NBC is so screwed is that they launched the Jay Leno Show, which involved cutting down the number of primetime hours they had (since they replaced time that was originally for primetime scripted shows with time for the new variety show). This meant cancelling extra shows to give space for it.. When the Conan/Jay stuff happened, and Conan left, the plan folded and suddenly they had tons of open spaces in their network show up. That's a hard thing for any network to deal with because it means rapidly ramping up the timetable and budget for development. It didn't help that NBC's development wasn't really doing all that well to begin with.

Bob Greenblatt is talented--well, everyone in the entertainment biz is talented until they failed and get recast as no talent losers like Ben Silverman and Bob Shaye--and so it's believed that his influence will help development since he comes from a development background, but he came in during the Comcast takeover after a lot of the development for this season was already done, so hard to say just yet.

Are any of the new shows for this Fall/Midseason developed by Greenblatt? Awake and Smash? I assume that the new shows for next Fall will be developed under him, or will some of them still be from Comcast's takeover?

 

[ivysaur12]

Are any of the new shows for this Fall/Midseason developed by Greenblatt? Awake and Smash? I assume that the new shows for next Fall will be developed under him, or will some of them still be from Comcast's takeover?

Yes and no. Awake, I believe, was in development with the previous regime, but was picked up by Greenblatt. I was under the impression that Bromstadt would have passed on the pilot because of other priorities.

Smash was brought by Greenblatt as it was originally developed for Showtime (and the original script shows this. Example: Katherine McPhee's character ends up sleeping with the director in the original to get the part while she doesn't sleep with him in the final version).

NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.

NBC also has a new newsmagazine (think 20/20, 48 Hours, 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc) launching soon, but it's supposedly not ready just yet.

Besides launching midseason shows, a network's only real option is to run repeats of other shows. Repeats obviously underperform new episodes, so you need to pick a repeat of something popular. One problem is that NBC has nothing going on right now. Even their more popular shows remain pretty marginal, and many of them are serialized in a way that they wouldn't repeat well. So that basically leaves Law and Order repeats. Not so hot.

One of the reasons why NBC is so screwed is that they launched the Jay Leno Show, which involved cutting down the number of primetime hours they had (since they replaced time that was originally for primetime scripted shows with time for the new variety show). This meant cancelling extra shows to give space for it.. When the Conan/Jay stuff happened, and Conan left, the plan folded and suddenly they had tons of open spaces in their network show up. That's a hard thing for any network to deal with because it means rapidly ramping up the timetable and budget for development. It didn't help that NBC's development wasn't really doing all that well to begin with.

Bob Greenblatt is talented--well, everyone in the entertainment biz is talented until they failed and get recast as no talent losers like Ben Silverman and Bob Shaye--and so it's believed that his influence will help development since he comes from a development background, but he came in during the Comcast takeover after a lot of the development for this season was already done, so hard to say just yet.

Smash could potentially launch now it they wanted to, but Greenblatt's plan is a Superbowl/Smash/The Voice/Awake combo in the spring. There's no reason to alter that plan to try to rectify this fall.

Also, I believe 30 Rock just started production again because of Tina Fey's pregnancy, so there's no hope of that coming in to help NBC comedies.

 

[cory.]

NBC pushed back Chuck and Grimm to October 28th

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Doesn't NBC have some other midseason shows that they could air this Fall? What about the awful looking Chelsea Handler Vodka show?

 

[ivysaur12]

Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.

1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".

2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.

Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.

* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.



I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:

Also, a note on retention:

Retention does matter, to a degree, but there's a huge caveat when the lead-in is massive. There are some shows (Idol, Two and a Half Men, Modern Family, The Office, Lost) that are cultural phenomena - there's no way to replicate those successes. They hit the right notes at exactly the right time. Anything coming out of Idol is going to look like shit in comparison, even if its numbers are good for the network at a whole (see: Breaking In).

But retention can only go so far when you're following the top shows on a network. At some point, there's a chance that no show you put behind there is going to do better because it's permeated the cultural mindset. And that's that.

Doesn't NBC have some other midseason shows that they could air this Fall? What about the awful looking Chelsea Handler Vodka show?

Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.

Betty White's reality show might be.

 

[dead souls]

Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.

Betty White's reality show might be.

Yep. NBC's pretty much fucked until midseason. It's going to be a long fall for them.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.

Betty White's reality show might be.

That's nice to know. What about Awake and Smash? I know NBC wants to save them for a midseason wonder combo, but are they developing smoothly? No overhauls?

Betty White is getting a reality show? lol

 

[ivysaur12]

That's nice to know. What about Awake and Smash? I know NBC wants to save them for a midseason wonder combo, but are they developing smoothly? No overhauls?

Betty White is getting a reality show? lol

I can ask but I think they're both doing well. Awake started production on the 2nd of September and I believe they're shooting the 3rd episode right now. I don't have as much of an idea with Smash - they film in NYC.

Yep. NBC's pretty much fucked until midseason. It's going to be a long fall for them.

I can't believe how few dramas they ordered. But honestly, maybe it's for the better. Besides Reconstruction, everything else they have was creatively vapid.

 

[Averon]

Yep. NBC's pretty much fucked until midseason. It's going to be a long fall for them.

NBC's fall from grace has been a sight to behold. I don't think NBC ever recovered from Friends ending and the subsequent collapse of their Must See TV branding.

 

[cory.]

Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.

Betty White's reality show might be.

If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I can ask but I think they're both doing well. Awake started production on the 2nd of September and I believe they're shooting the 3rd episode right now. I don't have as much of an idea with Smash - they film in NYC.

That's good to know. And Smash is filming in NY? Isn't it more expensive to film there, than in Hollywood? At least it'll have the right look.

If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.

Isn't that what ABC did with V?

 

[ivysaur12]

NBC's fall from grace has been a sight to behold. I don't think NBC ever recovered from Friends ending and the subsequent collapse of their Must See TV branding.

It happened in the 80s, too. These things have been fairly cyclical for them.

If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.

Eh. ABC tried that with V and it ended up failing because of the lost momentum. Though, it's a comedy, so who knows.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.

1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".

2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.

Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.

* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.



I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:

Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...

 

[Zoe]

Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...

Eh, if I'm watching something on Fox right before the news comes on and there isn't any other new programming, I'm more likely to stay on the channel. Otherwise I tend to channel surf for reruns of something.

 

[ivysaur12]

Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...

Point #1 still stands. I believe the lower internal estimations around upfronts were a 2.0-2.5 in the 18-49.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

You guys like person of interest? I was mega-hyped for it..

but it sucks.

Bad acting, corny, attention to detail is lacking.

My favorite new show is definitely Homeland.

That show looks very promising.

 

[Takao]

I know no one cares, but here's last week's Saturday Morning Kids TV competition:

Final K6-11 Ratings for Saturday, September 24, 2011 Broadcast Networks only (Live + SD Data):
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data

CW (Toonzai) 0.9/4Avg. (7a-12p)
Magi-Nation 0.1/2; Magi-Nation 0.3/3; Sonic X 0.7/4; Sonic X 1.0/5; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4; Sonic X 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.1/5; Tai Chi Chasers 1.0/4; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4

CBS (CookieJarTV) 0.4/2 Avg. (7-10a/10a-12p)
Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.4/2; Danger Rangers 0.5/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.3/1; Horseland 0.5/2

NBC (Qubo on NBC)Avg. 0.3/2 (10a-1p)
Turbo Dogs 0.2/1; Shelldon 0.2/1; Magic School Bus 0.3/1; Babar 0.3/1; Willa's Wild Life 0.5/2; Pearlie 0.6/3

Despite a weak premiere for Tai Chi Chasers last week (it debuted with a .5 last week) the show somehow doubled its share in its second week. Assuming Tai Chi Chasers can stay at a .8-1.0 throughout its run, and Kai (which is currently in repeats) gets the next episode order things will look very good for the CW Block. Especially since they're giving Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal a vote of confidence with an October 15 series premiere at the strong 9:30 AM (the spot currently held by the third Sonic X broadcast prior to Kai) slot.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I know no one cares, but here's last week's Saturday Morning Kids TV competition:

Final K6-11 Ratings for Saturday, September 24, 2011 Broadcast Networks only (Live + SD Data):
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data

CW (Toonzai) 0.9/4Avg. (7a-12p)
Magi-Nation 0.1/2; Magi-Nation 0.3/3; Sonic X 0.7/4; Sonic X 1.0/5; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4; Sonic X 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.1/5; Tai Chi Chasers 1.0/4; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4

CBS (CookieJarTV) 0.4/2 Avg. (7-10a/10a-12p)
Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.4/2; Danger Rangers 0.5/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.3/1; Horseland 0.5/2

NBC (Qubo on NBC)Avg. 0.3/2 (10a-1p)
Turbo Dogs 0.2/1; Shelldon 0.2/1; Magic School Bus 0.3/1; Babar 0.3/1; Willa's Wild Life 0.5/2; Pearlie 0.6/3

Despite a weak premiere for Tai Chi Chasers last week (it debuted with a .5 last week) the show somehow doubled its share in its second week. Assuming Tai Chi Chasers can stay at a .8-1.0 throughout its run, and Kai (which is currently in repeats) gets the next episode order things will look very good for the CW Block. Especially since they're giving Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal a vote of confidence with an October 15 series premiere at the strong 9:30 AM (the spot currently held by the third Sonic X broadcast prior to Kai) slot.

Do you watch any of these shows, Takao?

 

[twinturbo2]

It happened in the 80s, too. These things have been fairly cyclical for them.

Yeah, but NBC had the aforementioned Cheers and Hill Street Blues, plus The Cosby Show and Miami Vice, back in the '80s. Is there anything on the plate that has such potential for cultural impact like those shows? I don't think so.

 

[Zoe]

I know no one cares, but here's last week's Saturday Morning Kids TV competition:

That reminds me, I was just thinking the other day... do local networks even show weekday/after-school cartoons any more?