Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Updated OP to reflect Free Agents is definitely past the point of no return.
Stumpokapow said:Updated OP to reflect Free Agents is definitely past the point of no return.
ivysaur12 said:Surprised it hasn't been pulled yet. I think they're waiting to see how Prime Suspect does before moves are made.
If Tuesday comedies to well on ABC, they could put a block there. Or Thursday at 8 (probably the better choice). OR start TGIF again (which Paul Lee wants to do).
bh7812 said:Speaking of ABC and comedies, I had wanted to post here about how Paul Lee really wants to re-boot the TGIF block but was VERY hesitant to do so but since you've mentioned it, Ivysaur, I think it would definitely be ok to post what I wanted to
I'm reading this as "we have nothing better to do until February 5th."RatskyWatsky said:NBCs Bob Greenblatt Not Rushing To Wield Cancellation Axe On Playboy, Free Agents.
Good for him on giving these shows a chance. I wish they would get cancelled, but I'm very curious to see if this more cable-like approach will work on NBC.
Yep..cory. said:I'm reading this as "we have nothing better to do until February 5th."
Getting to see Free Agents longer is nice though.
Fantastical said:I watched The New Girl today.
What a piece of shit.
And so was Leno's when he first started. Conan just got on the wrong side of NBC's dick sucking fest with Leno.Ninja Scooter said:Conan's Tonight Show ratings were terrible too. He was just part of the problem.
planar1280 said:2 broke girls is off my dvr list, What an awful awful show.
Prime Suspect - 1.5
cory. said:How To Be A Gentleman - 2.7
Charlie's Angels - 1.5
Prime Suspect - 1.5
RatskyWatsky said:NBCs Bob Greenblatt Not Rushing To Wield Cancellation Axe On Playboy, Free Agents.
Good for him on giving these shows a chance. I wish they would get cancelled, but I'm very curious to see if this more cable-like approach will work on NBC.
Eggplant Wizard said:I agree, it'd be really nice to see networks simply allow a show's produced episodes to run out rather than pulling them from the schedule. I don't see it ever happening, but we could have had four more Lone Star episodes that way.
me said:People always say that networks should give more time to low rated shows because of, for example, Seinfeld.
Its funny that no one ever kicks up a fuss about quality pilots that dont get ordered to series, or quality spec scripts that dont get ordered to pilot. Those need to be given a chance too, and many of them have much better odds of delivering solid ratings in the end than sticking by an apparent ratings dud. For every good show, there are many poor shows, and for every poor show, there are several pilots that didnt even get the chance, and for every pilot, there are countless scripts that didnt make it that far. If people were really concerned about missed opportunities, the chain starts much earlier than a low-rated first season of a critically mixed show.
It may be the case that sticking by shows occasionally works, but viewers arent asking networks to stick by shows because they genuinely believe itll work, they ask networks to stick by shows because they like the shows and dont give a damn about ratings except to justify the continued existence of the shows they like.
And all of this is why the guys who write this site chalk this stuff up to Fan Excuse Bingoits not that the arguments or true or not, its that theyre incredibly thin veneers for what the fan is really saying Renew my favourite shows indefinitely and cancel all the stuff I dont like.
bh7812 said:-Secondly, "Last Man Standing", Tim Allen's return sitcom to ABC, is supposedly factoring in HUGE with the plans to re-boot the TGIF block. The plan is launch Tim Allen's show this year on Tuesday..if it does well it's supposedly getting moved to Friday next year and will anchor the new TGIF block. He has asked the network to set more fair target ratings numbers for the new show so hopefully they can get through it's first season and move it to Fridays in 2012. In August he said ABC is "A tighter, leaner ship" than it was when "Home Improvement" aired. So, that's why he asked the network to set realistic, fair target ratings numbers for it. It was not cheap to get Tim Allen back either from what I've read.
-What else would they put into the new TGIF block? Well, I'm reading John Stamos wants to do a "Full House" reboot-same concept, different name I'm guessing. The other 2 shows would be a total crapshoot to predict at this point. I've read and heard some of the things they want to do, and some of the shows that they are talking about for the new block but that's the part I want to leave out of this due to not wanting to turn this into pure "supposed and speculation". What I WILL say is what I'm reading and hearing sounds to me like they are taking the re-boot idea very seriously and are putting quite a bit of effort into it so we'll see what exactly plays out. When some of what I'm reading looks more concrete I'll post it.
Stumpokapow said:Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.
1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".
2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.
Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.
* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.
I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:
RatskyWatsky said:So, with your 1 and 2 in mind, why would NBC keep these shows on the air if it hurts them so much? Is it just a case of them not having any other real options?
Stumpokapow said:NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.
Stumpokapow said:NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.
NBC also has a new newsmagazine (think 20/20, 48 Hours, 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc) launching soon, but it's supposedly not ready just yet.
Besides launching midseason shows, a network's only real option is to run repeats of other shows. Repeats obviously underperform new episodes, so you need to pick a repeat of something popular. One problem is that NBC has nothing going on right now. Even their more popular shows remain pretty marginal, and many of them are serialized in a way that they wouldn't repeat well. So that basically leaves Law and Order repeats. Not so hot.
One of the reasons why NBC is so screwed is that they launched the Jay Leno Show, which involved cutting down the number of primetime hours they had (since they replaced time that was originally for primetime scripted shows with time for the new variety show). This meant cancelling extra shows to give space for it.. When the Conan/Jay stuff happened, and Conan left, the plan folded and suddenly they had tons of open spaces in their network show up. That's a hard thing for any network to deal with because it means rapidly ramping up the timetable and budget for development. It didn't help that NBC's development wasn't really doing all that well to begin with.
Bob Greenblatt is talented--well, everyone in the entertainment biz is talented until they failed and get recast as no talent losers like Ben Silverman and Bob Shaye--and so it's believed that his influence will help development since he comes from a development background, but he came in during the Comcast takeover after a lot of the development for this season was already done, so hard to say just yet.
RatskyWatsky said:Are any of the new shows for this Fall/Midseason developed by Greenblatt? Awake and Smash? I assume that the new shows for next Fall will be developed under him, or will some of them still be from Comcast's takeover?
Stumpokapow said:NBC has two solid mid-season shows (Smash, which I expect will be huge, and Awake, which could go either way) but they have a launch plan for them that involves leveraging their Superbowl Airing and promoting them with their successful show The Voice. So they don't want to use those. 30 Rock, which is a comedy and will presumably be scheduled for Thursday when it comes back, is also midseason, but I'm not sure where they are on production because Tina Fey got pregnant so it could be the case that they have no episodes in the can.
NBC also has a new newsmagazine (think 20/20, 48 Hours, 60 Minutes, Dateline, etc) launching soon, but it's supposedly not ready just yet.
Besides launching midseason shows, a network's only real option is to run repeats of other shows. Repeats obviously underperform new episodes, so you need to pick a repeat of something popular. One problem is that NBC has nothing going on right now. Even their more popular shows remain pretty marginal, and many of them are serialized in a way that they wouldn't repeat well. So that basically leaves Law and Order repeats. Not so hot.
One of the reasons why NBC is so screwed is that they launched the Jay Leno Show, which involved cutting down the number of primetime hours they had (since they replaced time that was originally for primetime scripted shows with time for the new variety show). This meant cancelling extra shows to give space for it.. When the Conan/Jay stuff happened, and Conan left, the plan folded and suddenly they had tons of open spaces in their network show up. That's a hard thing for any network to deal with because it means rapidly ramping up the timetable and budget for development. It didn't help that NBC's development wasn't really doing all that well to begin with.
Bob Greenblatt is talented--well, everyone in the entertainment biz is talented until they failed and get recast as no talent losers like Ben Silverman and Bob Shaye--and so it's believed that his influence will help development since he comes from a development background, but he came in during the Comcast takeover after a lot of the development for this season was already done, so hard to say just yet.
Stumpokapow said:Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.
1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".
2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.
Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.
* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.
I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:
RatskyWatsky said:Doesn't NBC have some other midseason shows that they could air this Fall? What about the awful looking Chelsea Handler Vodka show?
ivysaur12 said:Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.
Betty White's reality show might be.
ivysaur12 said:Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.
Betty White's reality show might be.
RatskyWatsky said:That's nice to know. What about Awake and Smash? I know NBC wants to save them for a midseason wonder combo, but are they developing smoothly? No overhauls?
Betty White is getting a reality show? lol
dead souls said:Yep. NBC's pretty much fucked until midseason. It's going to be a long fall for them.
Yep. NBC's pretty much fucked until midseason. It's going to be a long fall for them.
If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.ivysaur12 said:Not ready. It's going through a fairly significant creative overhaul. The Firm isn't ready either.
Betty White's reality show might be.
ivysaur12 said:I can ask but I think they're both doing well. Awake started production on the 2nd of September and I believe they're shooting the 3rd episode right now. I don't have as much of an idea with Smash - they film in NYC.
cory. said:If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.
Averon said:NBC's fall from grace has been a sight to behold. I don't think NBC ever recovered from Friends ending and the subsequent collapse of their Must See TV branding.
cory. said:If they really wanted to, they could make Vodka ready by November for a 4ish episode run before winter break.
Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...Stumpokapow said:Okay, here's are two very simple explanations for why networks typically don't do that.
1) Advertising slots are sold in advance for a fixed rate on the assumption of a certain number of viewers*. The more viewers a show is expected to have (and this expectation is based on the upfront, the time slot, the network's history, and the show's track record), the more money the ad slots are sold for. Networks guarantee a minimum number of viewers. If those viewers are not there, networks either need to (partially) refund advertisers or pull the advertising altogether, use more slots for in-house ads, and offers the advertisers better slots elsewhere on the network. When a show craters, it costs the network money immediately. They don't get to hold out for a year and then renegotiate the ad rates and tell advertisers "LOL punk'd u picked a bad show doggy".
2) Secondly, while renewals are not based on retention, retention matters. Viewers who show up for one show often leave the TV on and watch the next show. It keeps viewers on network and it keeps them watching TV. This effect ripples through the night, so a consistently weak primetime lineup will end the night with very poor audiences. After primetime is over, local affiliates (the actual tv stations in each area who brand themselves as part of ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, etc) take over programming. Affiliates are not technically guaranteed any viewers per se, but they are happier when more viewers get passed to them which feeds into #1 above. Affiliates threaten revolt, threaten to not air certain primetime shows, or threaten disassociation if national networks are not fulfilling their obligations to the affiliates.
Sure it'd be nice to watch the other Lone Star episodes--*cough* Hulu *cough* MOD DVD release what the fuck is FOX's problem--but it got pulled for a very good reason. Leaving it on to run out its produced episodes would have hurt FOX and affiliates. Also, while cancelling after two episodes leaves a bitter taste, it's not like any arcs would have wrapped up after six. You'd still feel angry.
* All uses of viewers in this article can be substituted for A18-49 or whatever.
I wrote this comment anonymously on TV By the Numbers in response to a gaggle of people cheering on Greenblatt's announcement and trying to argue that the Playboy Club should be given omg years and it'll be the next Seinfeld:
DeathNote said:Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...
DeathNote said:Lonestar came on at 9pm on Monday. 10pm is the local news. I'm sure the majority of people who watch their local Fox news have been doing so for years...
Takao said:I know no one cares, but here's last week's Saturday Morning Kids TV competition:
Final K6-11 Ratings for Saturday, September 24, 2011 Broadcast Networks only (Live + SD Data):
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data
CW (Toonzai) 0.9/4Avg. (7a-12p)
Magi-Nation 0.1/2; Magi-Nation 0.3/3; Sonic X 0.7/4; Sonic X 1.0/5; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4; Sonic X 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.2/5; Dragon Ball Z Kai 1.1/5; Tai Chi Chasers 1.0/4; Yu-Gi-Oh 1.0/4
CBS (CookieJarTV) 0.4/2 Avg. (7-10a/10a-12p)
Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Doodlebops Rockin Road Show 0.4/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.4/2; Danger Rangers 0.5/2; Busytown Mysteries 0.3/1; Horseland 0.5/2
NBC (Qubo on NBC)Avg. 0.3/2 (10a-1p)
Turbo Dogs 0.2/1; Shelldon 0.2/1; Magic School Bus 0.3/1; Babar 0.3/1; Willa's Wild Life 0.5/2; Pearlie 0.6/3
Despite a weak premiere for Tai Chi Chasers last week (it debuted with a .5 last week) the show somehow doubled its share in its second week. Assuming Tai Chi Chasers can stay at a .8-1.0 throughout its run, and Kai (which is currently in repeats) gets the next episode order things will look very good for the CW Block. Especially since they're giving Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal a vote of confidence with an October 15 series premiere at the strong 9:30 AM (the spot currently held by the third Sonic X broadcast prior to Kai) slot.
Yeah, but NBC had the aforementioned Cheers and Hill Street Blues, plus The Cosby Show and Miami Vice, back in the '80s. Is there anything on the plate that has such potential for cultural impact like those shows? I don't think so.ivysaur12 said:It happened in the 80s, too. These things have been fairly cyclical for them.
Takao said:I know no one cares, but here's last week's Saturday Morning Kids TV competition: