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http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/6135272

Wow, some of these user comments on ESPN give the typical youtube comments a run for their money

 

[Alucrid]

Even in lower weight classes there will be a difference in strength. When I was 14 I was still short and about 130lbs but I could climb up a rope ladder using just my arms, girls I knew who were taller than me and 130lbs couldn't get off the ground.

I never did any sort of strength training, either, just the way my body was.

I still weigh 130 lbs.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Even in lower weight classes there will be a difference in strength. When I was 14 I was still short and about 130lbs but I could climb up a rope ladder using just my arms, girls I knew who were taller than me and 130lbs couldn't get off the ground.

I never did any sort of strength training, either, just the way my body was.

If the girls are training, though, like this girl likely is,, then I imagine it would be pretty different. At a lower weight, there's only so much strength that can be had, and I have to imagine that the potential disparity between men and women would be much less or even negligible at such classes.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

Even in lower weight classes there will be a difference in strength. When I was 14 I was still short and about 130lbs but I could climb up a rope ladder using just my arms, girls I knew who were taller than me and 130lbs couldn't get off the ground.

I never did any sort of strength training, either, just the way my body was.

Thing is, the girls that get into wrestling have the frame and build for it, at least in my experience.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

That is a hard situation to be in. He fights her and wins, and he gets little respect. He fights her and loses and it is the ultimate humiliation. He forfeits and he appears to be sexist, a giant pussy, or somewhat noble for not wanting to have a violent encounter with a female. It is just a no win situation for the guy. It is a hard spot to be put in.

Exactly, I doubt he refused to fight her out of some sexist reason, or even due to his vague faith reason, but more so because no matter what happened he was going to get ribbed on by people. Essentially I think its more down to the rules of society than the fact that he is personally sexist.

 

[DY_nasty]

Thing is, the girls that get into wrestling have the frame and build for it, at least in my experience.

Yeah. There's a difference between the people you share a gym class with and the people who are after school every day training...

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Most girls who are 130 at that age are just plain fat.

Hahaha, nah it was that age where the girls had gotten their growth spurts but the guys were catching up. Specifically I'm thinking of a girl who was 5'9"-ish and about 130lbs.

Thing is, the girls that get into wrestling have the frame and build for it, at least in my experience.

True, the girl in the article has very slim hips and broad shoulders, even for a guy. You can clearly see the difference in musculature between the two in the OP's photos though.

 

[MWS Natural]

Even in lower weight classes there will be a difference in strength. When I was 14 I was still short and about 130lbs but I could climb up a rope ladder using just my arms, girls I knew who were taller than me and 130lbs couldn't get off the ground.

I never did any sort of strength training, either, just the way my body was.

Yeah but the strength difference is small enough to be overcome with skill. Once you start getting to the mid and upper weight classes the gap is just too wide. I've seen a guy lose to a girl before and If you think the ribbing from winning is bad it's nothing compared to losing. That will be with him FOR LIFE.

 

[Lunchbox]

I still weigh 130 lbs.

youre fat

/dy_nasty

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Yeah but the strength difference is small enough to be overcome with skill. Once you start getting to the mid and upper weight classes the gap is just too wide. I've seen a guy lose to a girl before and If you think the ribbing from winning is bad it's nothing compared to losing. That will be with him FOR LIFE.

The funny thing is, even though its generally recognised that he would get ribbed for losing, people call him the sexist one for backing out. Really even if hes not sexist, because he knows he is going to be surrounded by sexist people who will mock him win or lose, he cant really win.

 

[DY_nasty]

The funny thing is, even though its generally recognised that he would get ribbed for losing, people call him the sexist one for backing out. Really even if hes not sexist, because he knows he is going to be surrounded by sexist people who will mock him win or lose, he cant really win.

Yeah, he can.

Go out there and beat her. Win.

Tell all the people who scream "you beat up a girl" to stfu, turn, shake the girl's hand, then raise the trophy in one hand and hide the raging boner with the other.

 

[Alucrid]

The funny thing is, even though its generally recognised that he would get ribbed for losing, people call him the sexist one for backing out. Really even if hes not sexist, because he knows he is going to be surrounded by sexist people who will mock him win or lose, he cant really win.

Fake a heart attack?

 

[Mission]

There's a difference between "Women are too weak for violence" and "It's not right to hit women". It's debatable but it's possible to not want to fight women without being sexist, and we can't know for sure without being the kid in question.

I see what you are saying and I would agree. His statement didn't really go further than the latter statement. It's still kinda borderline.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

Yeah, he can.

Go out there and beat her. Win.

Tell all the people who scream "you beat up a girl" to stfu, turn, shake the girl's hand, then raise the trophy in one hand and hide the raging boner with the other.

Perfect solution in my book, but hindsight yadda yadda blah blah etc.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Yeah, he can.

Go out there and beat her. Win.

Tell all the people who scream "you beat up a girl" to stfu, turn, shake the girl's hand, then raise the trophy in one hand and hide the raging boner with the other.

If he can hide it with one hand its not big enough. He will get mocked for life. Your solution is horrible and could possible lead to depression and suicide. He just cant win I tells you.

 

[cyclonekruse]

My question is if all the people saying he should have wrestled her would say the same thing if this were a boxing match. From the sounds of it, many wouldn't. But I fail to see how the arguments would be any different. Presumably, they'd be in the same weight class, the girl would be training everyday, etc. The only thing different is that there would actually be punching involved.

 

[DY_nasty]

My question is if all the people saying he should have wrestled her would say the same thing if this were a boxing match. From the sounds of it, many wouldn't. But I fail to see how the arguments would be any different. Presumably, they'd be in the same weight class, the girl would be training everyday, etc. The only thing different is that there would actually be punching involved.

I've sparred with women before. Its not a big deal.

Like I said earlier, many women in mma/boxing/wrestling will end up training with guys anyways. There generally aren't that many women in the sport. If there are separate divisions established for actual matches, great. If there aren't any... its up to her. I'm not about to tell a woman who trains just as hard as any man that in 2011 there are still "no girls allowed" signs posted in front of the ring. She's got the right to be there as a fellow athlete and she takes the same risks that everyone else does.

Have at it.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

My question is if all the people saying he should have wrestled her would say the same thing if this were a boxing match. From the sounds of it, many wouldn't. But I fail to see how the arguments would be any different. Presumably, they'd be in the same weight class, the girl would be training everyday, etc. The only thing different is that there would actually be punching involved.

If a girl actively chooses to pursue a more male dominated sport, that doesn't have a female division, then they understand what they're doing and want to be treated as equals.

We had a girl on the football team, she took just as much punishment as the guys.

 

[cyclonekruse]

I've sparred with women before. Its not a big deal.

Like I said earlier, many women in mma/boxing/wrestling will end up training with guys anyways. There generally aren't that many women in the sport. If there are separate divisions established for actual matches, great. If there aren't any... its up to her. I'm not about to tell a woman who trains just as hard as any man that in 2011 there are still "no girls allowed" signs posted in front of the ring. She's got the right to be there as a fellow athlete and she takes the same risks that everyone else does.

Have at it.

And that seems consistent. However, I get the impression that some of the posters here would not advocate boxing a girl but they would advocate wrestling one. I just don't see how the argument is any different. So the "there's no hitting in wrestling" thing doesn't hold much weight for me.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

So the "there's no hitting in wrestling" thing doesn't hold much weight for me.

There's no hitting in Basketball either, oh wait...

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

If a girl actively chooses to pursue a more male dominated sport, that doesn't have a female division, then they understand what they're doing and want to be treated as equals.

We had a girl on the football team, she took just as much punishment as the guys.

What was her position and how big was she? I've heard of girl kickers but that's about it.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

What was her position and how big was she? I've heard of girl kickers but that's about it.

Yeah, I didn't really want to get into that... She was a defensive tackle, I think she weighed right over 200 pounds. So from the stands you'd never guess she was female.

 

[tiff]

Is bowing out of the match sexist? Yes. Was the guy being sexist when he did it? I doubt it. I trust that the guy was telling the truth when he said it was against his religion for him to wrestle her. So he's following his beliefs, which are sexist beliefs, but that doesn't imply he is sexist (okay he probably is but whatever).

How does holding sexist beliefs not make you sexist?

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

How does holding sexist beliefs not make you sexist?

I forgot, why don't you go back and read what I said in response to this exact question?

 

[cyclonekruse]

There's no hitting in Basketball either, oh wait...

I fail to see any kind of point from this statement. The argument by some seems to be that he should have wrestled her because it doesn't involve actually hitting her. What I did was ask why that matters. If a girl joined boxing (because there was no female-only league) and they were in the same weight class as a man, should the man box her? If someone says that the boy should have wrestled her, then it seems to me that they also should say the man here should box the woman. It's no different.

I don't see where basketball comes into the picture.

 

[DY_nasty]

I fail to see any kind of point from this statement. The argument by some seems to be that he should have wrestled her because it doesn't involve actually hitting her. What I did was ask why that matters. If a girl joined boxing (because there was no female-only league) and they were in the same weight class as a man, should the man box her? If someone says that the boy should have wrestled her, then it seems to me that they also should say the man here should box the woman. It's no different.

I don't see where basketball comes into the picture.

Basketball is a contact sport too... (Still its a bit of a stretch to go from fighting to basketball)

 

[krypt0nian]

I fail to see any kind of point from this statement. The argument by some seems to be that he should have wrestled her because it doesn't involve actually hitting her. What I did was ask why that matters. If a girl joined boxing (because there was no female-only league) and they were in the same weight class as a man, should the man box her? If someone says that the boy should have wrestled her, then it seems to me that they also should say the man here should box the woman. It's no different.

I don't see where basketball comes into the picture.

The point is that she already competed other boys to get to the place she was at. She beat boys over and over. She had the skills to face him.

If some girl did the same in boxing or basketball, then they should be there too.


The people here saying otherwise and pretending this is the poor lurttle gurl's first match ever are disrespecting her skills.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

Basketball is a contact sport too... (Still its a bit of a stretch to go from fighting to basketball)

Screwed up what I was trying to say. Basically the point in Boxing is to physically damage the other person until you win the match. That's not the point in wrestling, yes people get hurt in wrestling but they can get hurt in every contact sport.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Basketball is a contact sport too... (Still its a bit of a stretch to go from fighting to basketball)

Well, ignoring the fact that basketball is a different situation for a couple of reasons, that doesn't matter for what I said. What I said was that if you're arguing that the guy should wrestle her, you should also argue that a guy should box a girl. Clearly, if there were an analogous situation for basketball where no girls-only league existed, a similar argument can be made that the opposing team should play the team with a girl or even composed of all girls.

What I'm getting at is that I think there's some inconsistency here. Some posters seem to be saying that the boy should wrestle her but if it were boxing, then the boy SHOULDN'T do it because it involves hitting a girl. That just seems inconsistent. And it would apply for basketball too. So bringing up basketball doesn't seem to make a point.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Screwed up what I was trying to say. Basically the point in Boxing is to physically damage the other person until you win the match. That's not the point in wrestling, yes people get hurt in wrestling but they can get hurt in every contact sport.

In that case, that's only an argument to not have boxing as a sport at all. If there were a similar situation with boxing where a girl had to compete in a guys league, why shouldn't the boy box her if you're going to make the argument that the boy should wrestle her here? They'd be in the same weight class. She would know what she's getting herself into. She would be just as keen to knock him out as any boy. Etc. The only difference would be that the boy would actually have to strike the girl. But I don't see how that's relevant to the arguments being put forth.

 

[tiff]

I forgot, why don't you go back and read what I said in response to this exact question?

Ah sorry, I actually checked to make sure someone else didn't ask that and I missed it both times.

There's a difference between "Women are too weak for violence" and "It's not right to hit women". It's debatable but it's possible to not want to fight women without being sexist, and we can't know for sure without being the kid in question.

The latter is likely based on on the premise of the former so in all likelihood it's still sexist.

I can't really think of a non-sexist reason for "It's not right to hit women" that does not hold the same provision for men.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I can't really think of a non-sexist reason for "It's not right to hit women" that does not hold the same provision for men.

I don't think it's sexist to recognize that, on the whole, men oversize women and can easily hurt them without realizing it. It's also seen as cowardice to hurt those who don't have the ability to fight back.

Edit: Oh, and even if the teaching is based in a sexist thought, the effect of the teaching "I shouldn't hit girls" is not necessarily sexist.

V V V V
Edit the second: I follow a rule: If the thread is more than a few pages, read the OP and the page I'll be posting on to get a feel for where the conversation is. What if the OP is about Monster Trucks but the thread has evolved to "what do monster trucks say about our culture?", you'll look silly blurting out, "YEAH! I LOVE MONSTER TRUCKS!"

(Monster trucks are awesome. I'd be going to monster jam this weekend if not for my wife having the flu)

 

[Dali]

Haven't read any of the comments ITT, but I think this is just wrong. The girl shouldn't have been competing with the boys in the first place. I don't think it makes a difference whether or not girls compete with boys in some cases, but this is one case where it's just obviously wrong to have inter-sex competition.

 

[krypt0nian]

Haven't read any of the comments ITT, but I think this is just wrong. The girl shouldn't have been competing with the boys in the first place. I don't think it makes a difference whether or not girls compete with boys in some cases, but this is one case where it's just obviously wrong to have inter-sex competition.

If she already competed and proved herself to get to this point, you're wrong.

So you're wrong. She has the skills to compete on that level.

 

[DY_nasty]

Haven't read any of the comments ITT, but I think this is just wrong. The girl shouldn't have been competing with the boys in the first place. I don't think it makes a difference whether or not girls compete with boys in some cases, but this is one case where it's just obviously wrong to have inter-sex competition.

She was 20-13

She's better at wrestling than the Knicks are at basketball.

 

[JBuccCP]

Probably better than the Knicks at basketball too.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

She was 20-13

She's better at wrestling than the Knicks are at basketball.

I live in Cleveland, can we please not talk about the NBA?

 

[Dali]

If she already competed and proved herself to get to this point, you're wrong.

So you're wrong. She has the skills to compete on that level.

Yeah I'm sure a boy that age is nothing but a professional, fully able to put any uncontrollable thoughts or urges that boys that age are prone to out of his head and compete as any Olympic, greco-roman, champ would. The idea that this could very well be his first intimate contact with someone of the opposite sex that isn't related to him shouldn't factor into the "rightness" of this whole thing at all.

I played co-ed soccer when I was little. No big deal. The girls were just as fast as us and just as capable. This isn't exactly the same thing.

 

[Kapura]

I'd hit it.

this one was the best.

 

[PflargBlarg]

Glad she finally got a match... Had no clue she was fucking a freshmen though. Thats damned impressive.

Say again?

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

This is the last US Women's Olympic Wrestling Team.

http://www.life.com/image/52183546

I would not fight any of these ladies unless I could shoot them in the leg first.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah I'm sure a boy that age is nothing but a professional, fully able to put any uncontrollable thoughts or urges that boys that age are prone to out of his head and compete as any Olympic, greco-roman, champ would. The idea that this could very well be his first intimate contact with someone of the opposite sex that isn't related to him shouldn't factor into the "rightness" of this whole thing at all.

I played co-ed soccer when I was little. No big deal. The girls were just as fast as us and just as capable. This isn't exactly the same thing.

If that boy is considering that intimate context, he has far bigger problems.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

If that boy is considering that intimate context, he has far bigger problems.

Boners are hard to control at that age. And maybe he's scared she'll oil check him, and he'll like it?

 

[Dali]

If that boy is considering that intimate context, he has far bigger problems.

You're right. Nothing intimate about this. Just a day in the life of your average boy.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I have no idea what possessed me to google image search "gay wrestling" with safe search turned off.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

That just seems inconsistent. And it would apply for basketball too. So bringing up basketball doesn't seem to make a point.

There are very few sports that the whole point to you winning is to physically damage someone to the point they can't continue, wrestling is not one of these sports. That's why I think its different and I don't see it as inconsistent.

 

[Dude Abides]

He didn't say he wouldn't wrestle her because he was afraid of getting wood, he said it was because of his faith and conscience.

 

[krypt0nian]

You're right. Nothing intimate about this. Just a day in the life of your average boy.

He should be focusing on the sport. If he cannot do this, then I guess he's fucking his other competitors in the ass every wrestling match too.

There is nothing intimate about a wrestling match unless you bring it to the match. I've wrestled guys in HS and I'm gay. I wasn't thinking "OMG I'm fucking them!"

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

He didn't say he wouldn't wrestle her because he was afraid of getting wood, he said it was because of his faith and conscience.

His faith and conscience prevents that sort of contact with adolscent girls because it would tempt his sinful desires, i.e. boners.

 

[SapientWolf]

He didn't say he wouldn't wrestle her because he was afraid of getting wood, he said it was because of his faith and conscience.

The former case wouldn't make a very good sound bite. Well, not good in the traditional sense.