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[Dude Abides]

His faith and conscience prevents that sort of contact with adolscent girls because it would tempt his sinful desires, i.e. boners.

I think that is what he means. Any sustained physical contact with a female is, to him, the equivalent of heavy petting. Poor kid probably just needs to rub one out.

 

[Dali]

He didn't say he wouldn't wrestle her because he was afraid of getting wood, he said it was because of his faith and conscience.

And I said he shouldn't have even had to use that cop-out in the first place. That allowing her to compete against guys in the first place was a bad idea.

He should be focusing on the sport. If he cannot do this, then I guess he's fucking his other competitors in the ass every wrestling match too.

I know, right. Why can't the amatuer, wrestler, kid have a little more focus? It's not like the female body dominates the minds of most boys that age. For whatever reason, the girl had focus. It's not like she was trying to prove something or had a great deal of acclimation with the idea of groping the opposite sex up to that point.

There is nothing intimate about a wrestling match unless you bring it to the match. I've wrestled guys in HS and I'm gay. I wasn't thinking "OMG I'm fucking them!"

I bet you've seen guys naked in the shower and didn't pop a boner too! It's almost like you've been around dudes your whole life. Maybe even seen them naked and touched their equipment before. It's not the same thing.

 

[Dude Abides]

And I said he shouldn't have even had to use that cop-out in the first place. That allowing her to compete against guys in the first place was a bad idea.

Why not? Why should his hang-ups deprive her of an opportunity to compete?

 

[Arcane Hayter]

And I said he shouldn't have even had to use that cop-out in the first place. That allowing her to compete against guys in the first place was a bad idea.

There wouldn't be enough females to sustain a division, hell with wrestling you get plenty of forfeits just because the other school doesn't have a wrestler in a specific weight class.

 

[krypt0nian]

I know, right. Why can't the amatuer, wrestler, kid have a little more focus? It's not like the female body dominates the minds of most boys that age. For whatever reason, the girl had focus. It's not like she was trying to prove something or had a great deal of acclimation with the idea of groping the opposite sex up to that point.

I bet you've seen guys naked in the shower and didn't pop a boner too! It's almost like you've been around dudes your whole life. Maybe even seen them naked and touched their equipment before. It's not the same thing.

Exactly the same thing. You bring your game face to the game. You can excuse his mindset/behavior all you like but the onus in on him to be a good sportsman.

If he can't, he doesn't belong there. The girl obviously did.

 

[Dali]

Why not? Why should his hang-ups deprive her of an opportunity to compete?

Why should her desire to compete trump common sense? It's pretty cliche to describe teens as having raging hormones and that generally being an awkward transitional period for them, but it's true. Why make this transitional period more difficult for these kids by turning one of their outlets into some sort of high-tension, pc, battleground.

I honestly think the world would be a much better place if some of these kid's parents told them this simple truth that my mother let me in on when I was just a wee kid and cried about something being "unfair"; "Life isn't fair."

Exactly the same thing. You bring your game face to the game. You can excuse his mindset/behavior all you like but the onus in on him to be a good sportsman.

If he can't, he doesn't belong there. The girl obviously did.

Uhhh... no it's not the same thing. I'm saying it could very well be the first time he's touched a girl in such a way and you come back with, well I did it. You are a dude. Unless you've lived your life with blinders on and piss empty-handed, I'm 100% positive you had previous knowledge and a pretty high comfort level with the male anatomy.

 

[Dude Abides]

Why should her desire to compete trump common sense? It's pretty cliche to describe teens as having raging hormones and that generally being an awkward transitional period for them, but it's true. Why make this transitional period more difficult for these kids by turning one of their outlets into some sort of high-tension, pc, battleground.

I honestly think the world would be a much better place if some of these kid's parents told them this simple truth that my mother let me in on when I was just a wee kid and cried about something being "unfair"; "Life isn't fair."

Indeed, life isn't fair, which is why Northrup should have wrestled this girl even though he didn't want to.

Apparently she wrestled 33 people this year, presumably the vast majority of them male, without a problem. Once again, reality puts the lie to "common sense."

 

[Suairyu]

Why should her desire to compete trump common sense?

Why should every reason you've listed trump sexual equality? Sexual divisions in sports exist to prevent genetic advantage of one group of athletes, typically the males. It's fair, like with weight divisions. In this case, no genetic advantage, no fair reason to divide male and female. Any arguments to the contrary are apologies for sexism, not a legitimate point.

 

[Dali]

Indeed, life isn't fair, which is why Northrup should have wrestled this girl even though he didn't want to.

Apparently she wrestled 33 people this year, presumably the vast majority of them male, without a problem. Once again, reality puts the lie to "common sense."

I'm not sure how that speaks against the common sense of what I was suggesting. If you have some quotes from her competitors to offer perhaps explaining how they saw it as any other match, then I'd be happy to concede.

Why should every reason you've listed trump sexual equality? Sexual divisions in sports exist to prevent genetic advantage of one group of athletes, typically the males. It's fair, like with weight divisions. In this case, no genetic advantage, no fair reason to divide male and female. Any arguments to the contrary are apologies for sexism, not a legitimate point.

Because, as it pertains to many sports, men and women aren't equal? You know men are generally more muscular and have denser bones. So even if the weights are the same that doesn't really mean there is no genetic advantage.

edit: Or are you saying in this case it's fair because you don't think the genetic differences haven't exhibited themselves yet?

 

[krypt0nian]

Uhhh... no it's not the same thing. I'm saying it could very well be the first time he's touched a girl in such a way and you come back with, well I did it. You are a dude. Unless you've lived your life with blinders on and piss empty-handed, I'm 100% positive you had previous knowledge and a pretty high comfort level with the male anatomy.

This has no effect on arousal. If it did, I wouldn't be excited with guys since I've had all this exposure.

Dude, did not belong in the competition because he cannot exhibit sportsmanship if this is an arousal issue.


The girl put in the work to get there, and he's rude fr not giving her the respect of competition.

 

[Dali]

This has no effect on arousal. If it did, I wouldn't be excited with guys since I've had all this exposure.

No, but it does make it easier to cope with arousal or look past it to some other end.

Dude, did not belong in the competition because he cannot exhibit sportsmanship if this is an arousal issue.


The girl put in the work to get there, and he's rude fr not giving her the respect of competition.

Dude had only lost 4 matches. He deserved to be there.

 

[Dude Abides]

I'm not sure how that speaks against the common sense of what I was suggesting. If you have some quotes from her competitors to offer perhaps explaining how they saw it as any other match, then I'd be happy to concede.

The point is that what you view as "common sense" is no more than your subjective and personal opinion, which has little basis in the reality of this situation. We can see this in how you're presuming, without any basis whatsoever, that all these other guys also had some kind of problem.

 

[krypt0nian]

No, but it does make it easier to cope with arousal or look past it to some other end.


Dude had only lost 4 matches. He deserved to be there.

Not if he cannot be a sportsman and respect her level of competition and skill. He's a punk and does not belong on any mat.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

What the hell people, we're going backwards. He's the son of a minister and his religion frowns on contact between adolescents of the opposite sex. Saying "This is against my religion, sorry" was perfectly valid.

Also, his record was much better than hers so he forfeited a fight he was strongly favored to win.

That other people wrestled her and he was the exception shows it wasn't a boner thing, he had legitimate objections to wrestling her.

 

[Dali]

The point is that what you view as "common sense" is no more than your subjective and personal opinion, which has little basis in the reality of this situation. We can see this in how you're presuming, without any basis whatsoever, that all these other guys also had some kind of problem.

I've given my basis; the nature of teenage boys. I will concede that my common sense may be your ass backwards, but uhhh you haven't given me anything to support your "little basis in the reality of the situation" comment. Have the majority of the girl's male opponents been of the opinion that it was the same as any other match. I'm looking for something saying as much, but I'm not finding any quotes. If you find something saying as much, I'd be happy to change my thoughts on the subject.

 

[cyclonekruse]

There are very few sports that the whole point to you winning is to physically damage someone to the point they can't continue, wrestling is not one of these sports. That's why I think its different and I don't see it as inconsistent.

Again, that is an argument to not allow boxing period. Not an argument to disallow boxing a woman specifically. If the woman is in the same weight class and is capable of dealing out and handling the same punishment, why not allow her (and the guy)?

 

[Dude Abides]

I've given my basis; the nature of teenage boys. I will concede that my common sense may be your ass backwards, but uhhh you haven't given me anything to support your "little basis in the reality of the situation" comment.

Your subjective opinion about teenage boys, you mean. Which, at least where this particular situation is concerned, is contradicted by the actual factual basis I already pointed to - the real fact that she wrestled many other boys and there is no indication any of them whined about it.

 

[Shanadeus]

The term common sense! have been thrown around a lot lately.

 

[krypt0nian]

Again, that is an argument to not allow boxing period. Not an argument to disallow boxing a woman specifically. If the woman is in the same weight class and is capable of dealing out and handling the same punishment, why not allow her (and the guy)?

I say let her compete. She'd have an amazing record de facto because of the pussies that would bow out.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Your subjective opinion about teenage boys, you mean. Which, at least where this particular situation is concerned, is contradicted by the actual factual basis I already pointed to - the real fact that she wrestled many other boys and there is no indication any of them whined about it.

I can promise you that every single one of the boys she wrestled whined about it to somebody, if only their friends. Just turns out one of them couldn't wrestle her due to his objections.

 

[krypt0nian]

I can promise you that every single one of the boys she wrestled whined about it to somebody, if only their friends. Just turns out one of them couldn't wrestle her due to his objections.

Bullshit promise.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

The term common sense! have been thrown around a lot lately.

It's common sense that if you dress slutty to a wrestling match all the boys will back out for fear of getting a boner and sexually assaulting you.

 

[tiff]

Because, as it pertains to many sports, men and women aren't equal? You know men are generally more muscular and have denser bones. So even if the weights are the same that doesn't really mean there is no genetic advantage.

edit: Or are you saying in this case it's fair because you don't think the genetic differences haven't exhibited themselves yet?

She won 20 matches and qualified for the state tournament. Sexual differences don't seem to have inhibited her much.

 

[krypt0nian]

She won 20 matches and qualified for the state tournament. She had as much right to be there as anyone else.

I say bring on more pussified Christian boys. She'll be state champ!

 

[Dali]

Your subjective opinion about teenage boys, you mean. Which, at least where this particular situation is concerned, is contradicted by the actual factual basis I already pointed to - the real fact that she wrestled many other boys and there is no indication any of them whined about it.

Wait... so now the effects of testosterone on a developing boy's body is opinion? And once again the fact that you can't find any quotes is not clear cut evidence in favor of them having no negative opinion. It's hs wrestling, ffs. Not exactly something I'd imagine has an abundance of on-record quotes in the local paper.

 

[Arcane Hayter]

Again, that is an argument to not allow boxing period. Not an argument to disallow boxing a woman specifically. If the woman is in the same weight class and is capable of dealing out and handling the same punishment, why not allow her (and the guy)?

Professional sports? Go for it. Public school sports? I just don't see it happening. And we're not talking about women here, we're talking about girls. Ultimately for a girl (under age 18) its not even her choice but her parents choice.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I bet she would have beat him.

 

[Raistlin]

Your logic makes no sense at all. A Faith that considers women as crap is a faith that allows you to beat your wife for not having sex etc.

Not necessarily. A faith that considers women as weak, meek, and subservient is crappy in my book.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

What the hell people, we're going backwards. He's the son of a minister and his religion frowns on contact between adolescents of the opposite sex. Saying "This is against my religion, sorry" was perfectly valid.

Also, his record was much better than hers so he forfeited a fight he was strongly favored to win.

That other people wrestled her and he was the exception shows it wasn't a boner thing, he had legitimate objections to wrestling her.

/thread.

GAF is being intentionally thick on this one.

 

[ukas]

My three nephews (ages 10, 11, and 15) wrestle. While I was home for Christmas I went to two of their tournaments. While at said tournaments there were at least three or four girls wrestling as well. None of their opponents pussed out but, then again the boys all won. It definitely was weird to see because as I grew up wrestling (as well as my two older brothers) this was unheard of.

I'm all for the girls wrestling but, I wouldn't want to be the guy that loses to one. It would just be too embarrassing, especially for kids today. They would be heckled to hell and back.

 

[cyclonekruse]

Professional sports? Go for it. Public school sports? I just don't see it happening. And we're not talking about women here, we're talking about girls. Ultimately for a girl (under age 18) its not even her choice but her parents choice.

I don't see it happening either. What I am saying is that the arguments used to say that he should wrestle her would seem to apply to a hypothetical analogous boxing situation. If you would allow the one, you should allow the other. Saying that you wouldn't allow a girl to box because she would be being hit by a boy but would allow a girl to wrestle boys appears inconsistent.

 

[Dude Abides]

I can promise you that every single one of the boys she wrestled whined about it to somebody, if only their friends. Just turns out one of them couldn't wrestle her due to his objections.

Don't make promises you know you can't keep.

Wait... so now the effects of testosterone on a developing boy's body is opinion?

No, that's not opinion. What's opinion is your apparent view that, in the context of a wrestling match, those hormones mean the boys are popping wood and getting blueballs.

And once again the fact that you can't find any quotes is not clear cut evidence in favor of them having no negative opinion. It's hs wrestling, ffs. Not exactly something I'd imagine has an abundance of on-record quotes in the local paper.

I never said it was. But there's no evidence that they did, so my position is, given what we know about the situation, grounded in reality rather than hoary armchair sermonizing about "that's just how those boys are."

 

[Raistlin]

Sexist? IT IS FACT that they are built weaker compared to man.
That is biology, not sexism.

Sure it is ... on AVERAGE. Guess what, when talking about individuals that isn't necessarily the case.

he was in no win situation imo.

he won, he'd be mocked for beating a woman, he loses he'd be mocked for losing to a woman.

he took the right choice.

Wow, that's the most egocentric, pussyish line of thinking possible.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Don't make promises you know you can't keep.

Fair enough, I'll admit it was an exaggeration. But I think everyone knows that boys will not be happy wrestling with girls at a competitive level and will admit such either to their coaches or teammates.

 

[krypt0nian]

Fair enough, I'll admit it was an exaggeration. But I think everyone knows that boys will not be happy wrestling with girls at a competitive level and will admit such either to their coaches or teammates.

Then they need to be taught to get over it. Not encouraged to keep that opinion.

 

[krzy123]

She's already been eliminated from the competition.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Then they need to be taught to get over it. Not encouraged to keep that opinion.

Couple of ways to do this:

-Enough women get into wrestling that inter-gender matches become common so everyone's comfortable with them (if that were to happen there'd be enough girls for their own division, moot point).

-Stop encouraging the idea that men shouldn't hit women, because that's what's making it uncomfortable for them (Which maaaay just cause a few problems of its own).

 

[Lunchbox]

She's already been eliminated from the competition.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

What the hell people, we're going backwards. He's the son of a minister and his religion frowns on contact between adolescents of the opposite sex. Saying "This is against my religion, sorry" was perfectly valid.

Also, his record was much better than hers so he forfeited a fight he was strongly favored to win.

That other people wrestled her and he was the exception shows it wasn't a boner thing, he had legitimate objections to wrestling her.

Link their records...

 

[Shanadeus]

Couple of ways to do this:

-Enough women get into wrestling that inter-gender matches become common so everyone's comfortable with them (if that were to happen there'd be enough girls for their own division, moot point).

-Stop encouraging the idea that men shouldn't hit women, because that's what's making it uncomfortable for them (Which maaaay just cause a few problems of its own).

C) Make feminism an obligatory subject in school but make sure students don't feel it's a chore (you could for an example give out a 15$ or so a week to all those that show up at these classes and do well).

 

[Dali]

No, that's not opinion. What's opinion is your apparent view that, in the context of a wrestling match, those hormones mean the boys are popping wood and getting blueballs.

I think the emphasis on wood and blue-balls is all you and other people. I'm talking about being overwhelmed by first intimate contact with a girl, that being an unfair advantage and possibly adding stress to something that should otherwise be a fun past time.

I never said it was. But there's no evidence that they did, so my position is, given what we know about the situation, grounded in reality rather than hoary armchair sermonizing about "that's just how those boys are."

So because there's no evidence either way, you're grounded in reality and I'm sermonizing. Once again the fact that they fought the girls doesn't mean there weren't a host of psychological obstacles that stemmed solely from the fact their opponent was a girl. You can say "a real competitor topples the obstacles" but I say they shouldn't be there to begin with. Not in this case at least.

 

[krzy123]

Link their records...

He was seeded 5th his record was 35-4.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=6131909

Also the dude refused to wrestle the other girl in the tourney 3 years ago. In above article.

 

[Dude Abides]

I think the emphasis on wood and blue-balls is all you and other people. I'm talking about being overwhelmed by first intimate contact with a girl, that being an unfair advantage and possibly adding stress to something that should otherwise be a fun past time.

Possibly, maybe, this is all just speculation. The facts are girls wrestle and it doesn't seem to cause a problem in most cases.

So because there's no evidence either way, you're grounded in reality and I'm sermonizing. Once again the fact that they fought the girls doesn't mean there weren't a host of psychological obstacles that stemmed solely from the fact their opponent was a girl. You can say "a real competitor topples the obstacles" but I say they shouldn't be there to begin with. Not in this case at least.

I'm grounded in reality because I'm limiting my opinion to what we actually know about this situation rather than speculating about the inner emotional lives of teenagers I don't know, and using that as a basis to argue this girl should be banned from the sport.

 

[Raistlin]

This is the last US Women's Olympic Wrestling Team.

http://www.life.com/image/52183546

I would not fight any of these ladies unless I could shoot them in the leg first.

I'd wrestle Tela O'Donnell any day of the week.

 

[Lunchbox]

updated op with new results

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=6135272

Herkelman lost 5-1 on points to Indianola's Matt Victor in their 112-pound quarterfinals match, and was pinned by Des Moines Hoover senior Jordan Jones in their consolation match.

 

[Raistlin]

/thread.

GAF is being intentionally thick on this one.

lol hardly.


Whether his reaction makes sense given his environment is moot. The argument of whether the environment is wrong is a valid talking point.

 

[Big Baybee]

He was seeded 5th his record was 35-4.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=6131909

Also the dude refused to wrestle the other girl in the tourney 3 years ago. In above article.

 

[Dude Abides]

Northrup lost as well, so I guess he no longer needs to worry about giving the bad touch to either gender.

http://www.kwwl.com/Global/story.asp?S=14057457

 

[Shanadeus]

I wonder what people would say if a HS wrestler refused to wrestle with a male wrestler of a black ethnicity with the motivation that his religion consider though between a black man and a white man inappropriate.

 

[Slavik81]

You don't hit anyone in wrestling. Doing so would be against the rules.