It is fraud. There are certainly legal repercussions which Kickstarter -can- pursue if they feel they have been defrauded. It is not the backers being defrauded, it is the platform, because if you attempt to dishonestly circumvent clearly stated regulations on a platform, especially when it involves money, it is a case of cheating. Kickstarter will unlikely take this cause of action though, since it is far easier for them to just suspend the campaign and end if there.
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RED ASH Kickstarter crashes n burns (Comcept/Inafune/Hyde making Mega Man Legends 3)
- Thread starter TDLink
- Start date
It is fraud. There are certainly legal repercussions which Kickstarter -can- pursue if they feel they have been defrauded. It is not the backers being defrauded, it is the platform, because if you attempt to dishonestly circumvent clearly stated regulations on a platform, especially when it involves money, it is a case of cheating. Kickstarter will unlikely take this cause of action though, since it is far easier for them to just suspend the campaign and end if there.
Sakura
Member
"The KalKanon Incident is planned for a playtime of 8 hours across 4 chapters."
It says this on the Kickstarter page, and you quoted it a bit earlier.
However, unless I am misunderstanding something, the base funding goal is not 4 chapters, so I don't see how reaching just the base goal would mean an 8 hour game?
Then of course other people have already replied to you on the 'vision' part you quoted.
Woah woah woah
What? Are you joking? I mean opinions and all that but I think these guys look great. Colorful and eye catching.
twothunder
Member
I would not be surprised. I think they never imagined it doing this poorly.
If it still hasn't hit 600K in the last 2 / 3 days. It would probably be smarter to cancel.
I had no real opinion on these campaigns but part of me is glad the campaigne might not be funded. As stated before I would not be surprised if Comcept expected to have this funded within the first week and this shows them that people just won't throw them money so hand over fist like with mighty no. 9 especially since that game like people have criticized before isn't even out yet. Hope Inafune and his team learn something from all this.
rockman zx
Member
Maybe not the first day but all the high profile videogame KS got funded in 2-3 days isn't it?.
I hope they regroup and try again later with a more appealing kickstarter. I think they have the groundwork for a cool game here.
I'm fairly certain this is just comcept stumbling over their terminology. The gist I'm getting is that they're aiming for an 8-hour base, and will expand on it if they get additional funding. When using kickstarter it might be necessary to use labels like "chapters" or "episodes" when referring to ideas for expanding on a role playing game, but it can get a bit messy compared to relatively simple "we'll add a level" stretch goals. That said, I agree the language could have been chosen better.
Unfortunately I doubt they will. If it doesn't get funded (and I'm still hopeful for a push next week), then they'll have gone to quite a lot of trouble, gotten partners involved, and put their good name on the line only for things to go badly. The idea that they'd risk further blackening their name by "relaunching" is wishful thinking. They're not going to take that risk. Of course they might seek to get their project funded via more traditional means, but given what they're trying to do, and the fact that they want to retain the IP, and the fact that the idea would have a "failed kickstarter" stigma, it would probably take much longer and be much less secure (it's not written in stone that comcept will even be around in a few years). Put frankly, if anyone is interested in the game, they really need to back it. Holding off an hoping for a relaunch just isn't realistic.
Call me jaded if you like, but disingenuous? In the past few years we've seen journalists being attacked for pledging to patreons and developers being accused of supporting other developers in a "clique" style, and I've personally seen MN9 get called a "scam" dozens of times, along with a few disheartening things like people thinking Comcept spent backer money on a cartoon (the exact opposite of how licensing works...). I'm quite sincere in my belief that people would look at Comcept pledging to other kickstarters and twist it into something ugly. If people can conclude that backer money was spent making licensed products, they can conclude it was spent on other devs' kickstarters.
That strikes me as a rather ugly sentiment. Many of the key members of the dev team are veterans from the Megaman Legends series. At this point they've been waiting years for another crack at what they helped to create. If the game isn't funded, the dev team are the ones who will miss out the most, and they wouldn't learn a thing because they haven't done anything wrong. I really hope there aren't many people so eager to see Inafune get "taught a lesson" that they don't mind if a group of earnest creators gets stepped on in the process.
Maybe it is. I'm basing my opinion on little research and soly on what I saw on kickstarter. Hoestly if they just waited a few months they wouldn't be getting nearly as much flack as they are now. Yes it sucks for the developers and while they have not done anything wrong the company as a whole are seen to be messing up, that's what happens when you put a company logo on something and your leader is egar to start a new project at the tail end of another.
I mean, Shadow of the Eternals (Eternal Darkness sequel) failed...
Yeah I know
It just seems like such a waste if the project doesn't get funded and gets abandoned forever.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Back to $3,000 for yesterday and $69 (!!!!!) so far for today. What a fucking shame....
I don't think that's feasible. More than likely there is staff who have completed their roles on MN9 who need something to work on soon.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
A few biggish ones have failed like Outcast Reboot, Eternal Darkness (Twice), Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, Human Resources (Uber Entertainments game) and Shaker (By Tom Hall).
Considering its not the first time you've brought this point up I thought it seemed like a big deal to you but perhaps I misunderstood? Either way, I what I basically want to say is that the bolded is a line of thought that is alien to me. It doesn't mean anything to anyone else I've ever seen talk about Kickstarter projects. Again I respect if it means something to you - I just straight up don't understand the line of thought.
rockman zx
Member
That logic works on the developer side but maybe not on the consumer side when the consumer is still waiting to test your first game and see if their money was put to good use, specially when you need their money once again to make another game.
They had to launch within a certain timeframe to ensure the availability of the people working on the anime, I think.
NoFaceNico
Member
Wow, so the Anime saw a boost, huh? It's going to be so awkward if it gets funded but the game doesn't.
Here's the effectiveness of the prototype footage in GIF form:
Here's the effectiveness of the prototype footage in GIF form:
Well, the prototype didn't exactly show anything noteworthy. It's nice that they showed it, but that demo area looks like something you can build in Unity in a day or two. Walking and jumping isn't that hard to pull off (and both walking and jumping looked rather bad to boot)...
so far we have been told to stay tuned in regard to footage .
there is this in the meantime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fKPtUeOA_A
They put out a small prototype video on their campaign page in the updates section. They should add it to the main page but for now here is the link.
Red Ash Prototype Footage
Perhaps as per the Design/Tech categories KS should mandate a software development plan and a functioning prototype?
Anyhow, as for things to do why not look at Bloodstained? (this will be tiring by now having gone through the S3 KS). Particularly since that project also had the MN9 cloud and the organisers there pushed really hard to remove any doubt by mentioning looking at Xrd from the beginning (on celshading) and getting the team to show an offscreen prototype (better than nothing).
Getting Inafune on the camera and having him address some of those points and playing around with the prototype / discussing on design ideas on his 'new' MML would be better than nothing, though given the status of this project it might be difficult to turn the ship around.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
When people said "wanna see a prototype", I hope they realise people didnt want to just see Mighty No 9 models bunged into a basic Unity 3D movement engine?
I guess since Budokai outlined why would they start making any actual game stuff until halfway through a failing kickstarter, theres not much hope for anything else other than maybe that new model being bunged into the basic movement engine too.
Still never really got to the bottom on what happens with $79 and up pledges and refunds if "The New Order Conspiracy" never happens though. I imagine thats a question they dont want to have to answer.
I guess since Budokai outlined why would they start making any actual game stuff until halfway through a failing kickstarter, theres not much hope for anything else other than maybe that new model being bunged into the basic movement engine too.
Still never really got to the bottom on what happens with $79 and up pledges and refunds if "The New Order Conspiracy" never happens though. I imagine thats a question they dont want to have to answer.
I just feel a little satisfied to see the Kicktraq site projects failure. Poorly handled Kickstarters should not succeed just because rabid fanboys throw money at them. I'm happy to see people have kept their heads checked.
I hope they redesign their plan of attack and polish their current presentation a little. They surely will make a little profit from Mighty Number 9 so they should front a little of the risks themselves too.
I hope they redesign their plan of attack and polish their current presentation a little. They surely will make a little profit from Mighty Number 9 so they should front a little of the risks themselves too.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I hope this doesn't discourage them of ever trying at it again. I'm sure that if they regroup and launch a better campaign (and we know there's a lot they can improve) they'll get it funded.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Rofl they took MN9 models, stuck it in a rudimentary 3D enviroment, and threw some soda cans in there and thought this would sell someone? I don't even know how it's possible to fuck up a pitch this badly and continue to do so for weeks. It's like they are doing everything in a vacuum. This Kickstarter deserves to be in a textbook.
Hahaha I dont think its a good idea to put this in the pitch page.
shadow2810
Member
I think they stop trying.
It's been making a little bit of money today, I've been keeping an eye on it but I think at this rate there is no console version coming unless they hit a gold mine and donations start pouring in. If it isn't at 500k by tomorrow night I think I'm just gonna pull my donation and wait for a second campaign hopefully.
Firestorm ZERO
Member
Looks like the anime has a better chance of succeeding. Makes sense since they made better updates.
Gunstar Ikari
Unconfirmed Member
Firestorm ZERO
Member
The anime is now 18 minutes (with an 12 min + 6 min ending). And is now HD with Bluray. Like I said, they made better updates.
I don't get what this is supposed to show. I'm well aware that an early prototype is just that, an early prototype, but this is just MN9 model in a blank 3D world.
Why even show this? All you're going to get is "wow this looks like shit".
Ha, I'm actually looking forward to the anime seeing as it'll probably get funded.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Basically
It literally would have been better to tape paper cutouts of the characters on popsicle sticks and have them dance around in a shoebox than this
Putting something like this out there leaves an even worse impression. People will look at this and wonder if you will always over-promise and under-deliver based just on internal deadlines, it proves you truly have nothing right now, and it makes you look like you don't have a clue what people need to be excited for your project.
I think it was meant to show what they were aiming for with things like the camera and movement (weird on Beck though) and I mean the model they showed look nice but I think this is something they threw together to put up since so many people were asking.
In the video they clearly say that "you managed to pull it off in time" with the model and the model rigging so it's obviously super early on. I would hope if anymore videos come out of this maybe they can swap characters with some rough animations on the new characters.
I can see why they are funding the prologue in some ways providing it's being released first. Having the prologue funded means they have can start working on getting the character models all done,the rigging, animation, enemy types and essentially a big enough working game that they can reuse a lot of what they design on the prologue for the main game. I think it should have just had a goal of 1-1.5 mil for the entire game and prologue instead of these separate things. I do however think that 800K to get the game up and started is not unreasonable at all and I think the goal they have to get things going is a fair one.
I think if this doesn't make it they should just use the animation kickstarter to serve as the prologue and focus on the main game.
No joke, this would have been better. Show their character, how they interact, and just talk about the game more.
What they showed is, in my opinion, actually going to hurt them. Showing nothing is better than what they showed, fair or not.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Amplitude was fairly high profile and that was only funded in the last day or two. Neverending Nightmares was also a close call, although that's hardly comparable to a new game from Inafune. Most of these really big projects like Wasteland, MN9, Project Eternity etc all get fully funded very quickly, and I'm sure Inafune assumed that this would zip over the finish line based on his MN9 funding project. I reckon assuming it gets funded when all said and done, they're going to end up with less than half of the money to make this game that they assumed they would.
Holy shit, that looks awful. "We don't have anything to show and the Kickstarter is failing horribly. Can't you just make this Beck skin run around an empty corridor to show that we're working on something?!"
Oh good lord this thing has been such a disaster.
Stone Ocean
Member
I mean, why not even bother using the Beck model they were working on with a half assed run animation? This looks awful and doesn't show anything but "hey remember how you could kick soda cans in a very tight area that made the camera go haywire?"