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[Silvawuff]

This KS has been painful to watch. On one hand I want to see it fail because of had badly it's been handled -- on the other I feel bad that people working at Comcept might not have jobs soon without another project to work on.

I'm still confused about how this whole thing is being developed since it's a prologue for a bigger game that's going to come out anyway? Or something.

 

[Gonzon06]

Guys, I doubt that's the only beta video they'll show. I'll bet that the point of that was to show that they're working on something and give us a peek at Beck.

 

[Cmagus]

This KS has been painful to watch. On one hand I want to see it fail because of had badly it's been handled -- on the other I feel bad that people working at Comcept might not have jobs soon without another project to work on.

I'm still confused about how this whole thing is being developed since it's a prologue for a bigger game that's going to come out anyway? Or something.

I don't think that the full game has been 100% confirmed yet but Inafune has basically said he will make it happen but I could be wrong or have misread something.

Like I said in an earlier post I feel this is pretty much funding to get the project off the ground and started but I think the mixed message basically saying the full game will come regardless and the whole prologue confusion is what didn't click with people.

Why fund a prologue when the main game will be made anyways, I feel like there is some confusion there and if that footage from the video is what they had to show then this project has barely been started and still very early in pre-production.

 

[kewlbot]

we got a week left
wonder if they can do something to get the rest of the funds in

 

[hamchan]

we got a week left
wonder if they can do something to get the rest of the funds in

They've played most of their cards already right? Might be done for.

 

[TheOnePercent]

They've played most of their cards already right? Might be done for.

It's time to call in a specialist.

 

[JDSN]

It's time to call in a specialist.

I had no idea people used that haircut outside of the Fallout games.

 

[Cmagus]

They just released a new update:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update #14: Interview with President Yanagihara from HYDE, Inc.!

Hello everyone!

Have you seen the previous update yet? HYDE has been working on their prototype for the game every day. We were stunned by the speed and enthusiasm with which HYDE is working when we went for our visit!

You may want to ask, what kind of company are they, exactly? To answer your curiosity, we had an interview with the president of the company, Yanagihara-san!

RED ASH : Interview with Yanagihara-san

What did you think? HYDE has been shrouded in a veil of mystery, but maybe you caught a glimpse of their potential? Yanagihara-san sounds like a really cool and nice guy! But he’s also very passionate and ambitious when it comes to making games, and we feel a strong sense of artistry and idealism from him. Technical expertise and organization is important in game development, but passion, leadership ideals, and heart are all important too.

We get the feeling we’re going to make a great team with HYDE, where we can both freely express our ideals and discuss our opinions. We’re looking forward to working together more, HYDE-san!

That wraps up today’s update!

Feel free to send messages of support to the RED ASH Team! You can comment here on Kickstarter, or send them though Twitter!

English Twitter：@RedAshGame

Japanese Twitter：@RedAshGamejp

We’ll see you again in the next update!

-The RED ASH Team

 

[Toki767]

This KS has been painful to watch. On one hand I want to see it fail because of had badly it's been handled -- on the other I feel bad that people working at Comcept might not have jobs soon without another project to work on.

I'm still confused about how this whole thing is being developed since it's a prologue for a bigger game that's going to come out anyway? Or something.

Why couldn't the people at Comcept just continue working on this game if it fails and then just re-debut it in a couple months when they have more things to show? Especially if they really believe in this project.

Also they're working on Recore as well so it's not like they don't have things to do.

 

[djplaeskool]

Yikes.
They need something averaging almost $50k/day to make it at this point.
I think this campaign is more or less done for.
I'm still a little stunned, to be honest. When this first was revealed, and its pedigree was almost immediately identified, I figured this would have been another lock.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Yikes.
They need something averaging almost $50k/day to make it at this point.
I think this campaign is more or less done for.
I'm still a little stunned, to be honest. When this first was revealed, and its pedigree was almost immediately identified, I figured this would have been another lock.

It would have with a better ran project and Kickstarter

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I don't understand why they didn't opt to go with CC2 for Red Ash. Post MML3's cancellation, the president openly stated that he would love to pick up production of the game if Capcom were willing. On top of that, they have made Tail Concierto and Solatorobo, two games that wear their Legends inspiration on their sleeve. It would have been a match made in heaven for this game. Maybe they were too expensive, but it honestly would have inspired better publicity for this KS.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Hyde, but the fud concerning mobile games spread on the opening days of the kickstarter may be hard to clean up.

 

[duckroll]

I don't understand why they didn't opt to go with CC2 for Red Ash.

Probably because CC2 is currently working on 3 substantial projects and don't even have enough manpower for them, hence they're aggressively hiring and expanding? It's nice to want stuff, but actual schedules and manpower realities is another thing.

 

[twothunder]

two days ago (around the same time)
5,755 backers
$465,029 pledged of $800,000 goal
8 days to go

now
5,847 backers
$472,836 pledged of $800,000 goal
6 days to go

Even with updates and everything
It still can't reach 4000 a day.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Guys, I doubt that's the only beta video they'll show. I'll bet that the point of that was to show that they're working on something and give us a peek at Beck.

But it's the wrong Beck

This is like Capcom sticking a model of Ken from SF5 in a box with collision and having him jump awkwardly and throw fireballs and saying "The next Mega Man game will be kinda like this, only it will be structured differently, will have a different hud, will have a different character, and will control differently, just use your imagination guise but see we tried"

I'm not sure what the point of even doing more videos would be unless they can pull something together within 5 days that wipes away the memory of this laughing stock.

 

[Toki767]

I do wonder how many backers this will get on the last day or two when those e-mail reminders go out.

 

[Sou Da]

But it's the wrong Beck

This is like Capcom sticking a model of Ken from SF5 in a box with collision and having him jump awkwardly and throw fireballs and saying "The next Mega Man game will be kinda like this, only it will be structured differently, will have a different hud, will have a different character, and will control differently, just use your imagination guise but see we tried"

I'm not sure what the point of even doing more videos would be unless they can pull something together within 5 days that wipes away the memory of this laughing stock.

You know he means the red dash model. That was also in the video.

 

[Leona Lewis]

I do wonder how many backers this will get on the last day or two when those e-mail reminders go out.

Probably just as many as it will lose when it becomes clear the PS4 stretch goal isn't happening.

 

[Cmagus]

two days ago (around the same time)
5,755 backers
$465,029 pledged of $800,000 goal
8 days to go

now
5,847 backers
$472,836 pledged of $800,000 goal
6 days to go

Even with updates and everything
It still can't reach 4000 a day.

It'll be super tight for them to hit it at this point and the total actually just went down. Shame there was no new footage in that interview as he was explaining things and the video right now is also unlisted so the only way to access it is with the link.

If it fails I think if they go back and relaunch it with a better message that it'll certainly hit it's goal I don't think people would just blow it off. I think if they came out and gave one goal for both PC and Console, showed some footage this easily would have hit it's goal within the first 1-3 days no problem.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

You know he means the red dash model. That was also in the video.

Well, I'll retract that much then. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a jerk and turned the video off halfway through because I was too embarrassed for the team to continue. It's the bottom line with this Kickstarter, put your worst foot forward. I think it would have been better to just show the model since it looked decent, and only show something in motion when they can get that model animated.

It's not that I think it's dishonest or even lazy to show what they did, it's just the wrong thing to do, especially at this stage of the Kickstarter. If this had been planned better, something more complete could have been produced by now. Now they are just grasping at straws and it shows.

 

[timetokill]

seeing as how most of the people in this thread care more KS Policy and practices in general rather than this KS I thought that it would be a good idea to post this infograpic .
(kickstarter infographic)

"As of 2012." I wonder how much it's changed now that the "Kickstarter Boom" has waned.

 

[junpei]

But it's the wrong Beck

This is like Capcom sticking a model of Ken from SF5 in a box with collision and having him jump awkwardly and throw fireballs and saying "The next Mega Man game will be kinda like this, only it will be structured differently, will have a different hud, will have a different character, and will control differently, just use your imagination guise but see we tried"

I'm not sure what the point of even doing more videos would be unless they can pull something together within 5 days that wipes away the memory of this laughing stock.

funny you should mention that because this was one of the first megaman legends 3 screenshots .

placeholders are fine in my book and I think that the reason why they showed it was to prove that they are indeed hard at work. Kirby was himself a placeholder design and look how that turned out . the prototype footage isn't great but It is a prototype .even though this KS has been a train wreck I don't think it fair to be so critical of what seems to be a normal practice .

 

[shadow2810]

funny you should mention that because this was one of the first megaman legends 3 screenshots .

placeholders are fine in my book and I think that the reason why they showed it was to prove that they are indeed hard at work. Kirby was himself a placeholder design and look how that turned out . the prototype footage isn't great but It is a prototype .even though this KS has been a train wreck I don't think it fair to be so critical of what seems to be a normal practice .

You forgot to mention that screenshot was part of the prototype they used to demonstrated Tecmo city. But what we have here is just one placeholder character running around in a corridor kicking can, what are they trying to show us?

 

[Gonzon06]

You forgot to mention that screenshot was part of the prototype they used to demonstrated Tecmo city. But what we have here is just one placeholder character running around in a corridor kicking can, what are they trying to show us?

No, I think that was just to test the engine, that looks nothing like the actual Teomo city screenshots even without the placeholder textures. What we have here is probably the same thing but at a much earlier stage.

 

[shadow2810]

No, I think that was just to test the engine, that looks nothing like the actual Teomo city screenshots even without the placeholder textures. What we have here is probably the same thing but at a much earlier stage.

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/02/an-early-look-at-mega-man-legends-3-in-screenshot-form/

basically they tried to build the city with placeholder assets

 

[Shizuka]

Probably because CC2 is currently working on 3 substantial projects and don't even have enough manpower for them, hence they're aggressively hiring and expanding? It's nice to want stuff, but actual schedules and manpower realities is another thing.

Isn't price more important? I can't honestly believe they could afford CC2 with the funds from the Kickstarter, even if they handed CC2 all the money they raised. Hyde and Inti Creates were probably very cheap, it's like the outsource companies mid-tier publishers in Japan take advantage of, CC2 is a little higher than that.

 

[Gonzon06]

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/02/an-early-look-at-mega-man-legends-3-in-screenshot-form/

basically they tried to build the city with placeholder assets

Ah I stand corrected, my bad

I still think that Red ash is at a much earlier stage than that though

 

[junpei]

You forgot to mention that screenshot was part of the prototype they used to demonstrated Tecmo city. But what we have here is just one placeholder character running around in a corridor kicking can, what are they trying to show us?

Kicking the can I guess ? I said the point was to show that they are still working on the project and haven't stopped. In fact they seem to have just started . I think that point was to show concerned backers that that they are moving forward and not necessarily to sway potential backers. swaying potential backers may be the next thing that they show us .

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

I would have really liked to have played this game.

 

[Diggeh]

I would have really liked to have played this game.

I would really love a Mandrake summary of the KS.

 

[robotrock]

I would have really liked to have played this game.

I think you will at some point. But I doubt anyone would have enjoyed playing the $800k version.

 

[junpei]

Perhaps as per the Design/Tech categories KS should mandate a software development plan and a functioning prototype?

Anyhow, as for things to do why not look at Bloodstained? (this will be tiring by now having gone through the S3 KS). Particularly since that project also had the MN9 cloud and the organisers there pushed really hard to remove any doubt by mentioning looking at Xrd from the beginning (on celshading) and getting the team to show an offscreen prototype (better than nothing).

Getting Inafune on the camera and having him address some of those points and playing around with the prototype / discussing on design ideas on his 'new' MML would be better than nothing, though given the status of this project it might be difficult to turn the ship around.

a development plan is fine but a mandate for a functioning prototype would be very hard and prohibitive for most smaller KS. I see demos/prototypes as a good to have but it should not be a must .

 

[wrowa]

a development plan is fine but a mandate for a functioning prototype would be very hard and prohibitive for most smaller KS. I see demos/prototypes as a good to have but it should not be a must .

Smaller KS don't get away with not showing gameplay, anyway. If you are an unknown, you have to show something to prove that you are worth the support or otherwise people won't give you money.

It's actually the big name Kickstarters that get away with showing almost nothing.

 

[junpei]

Smaller KS don't get away with not showing gameplay, anyway. If you are an unknown, you have to show something to prove that you are worth the support or otherwise people won't give you money.

It's actually the big name Kickstarters that get away with showing almost nothing.

now that I think about yeah you are right but I still think that mandating demos on all could have negative effects . maybe only big KS should have to have a demo or maybe it should be based on how much the initial goal is .

 

[NoFaceNico]

Smaller KS don't get away with not showing gameplay, anyway. If you are an unknown, you have to show something to prove that you are worth the support or otherwise people won't give you money.

It's actually the big name Kickstarters that get away with showing almost nothing.

That's true, big name KS projects get away without showing anything. But I hope Yooka-Laylee is a sign that this trend is changing, especially when we compare that to Red Ash. They're going to have to take the first step forward and match what they're asking for from backers with some initiative of their own. Red Ash is definitely a sign of the "old way" of doing a Kickstarter. So was Bloodstained but they had the benefit of a large fanbase whereas Red Ash's fanbase is definitely a niche.

 

[OmegaX]

now that I think about yeah you are right but I still think that mandating demos on all could have negative effects . maybe only big KS should have to have a demo or maybe it should be based on how much the initial goal is .

We are in a post Massive Chalice world. People are way more skeptical to back a second KS by the same developer if the first hasn't delivered yet. Having a prototype goes a long way in showing that you are committed to finishing a project.
I think Inafune could have gotten away showing only concept art if the anime KS didn't exis,t and if the pitch video was better produced, and if the deal about the prelude vs the full game was better explained from the start. Seriously, compare MN9 pitch video vs Red Ash's. The first looks like they hired a professional advertisement studio, the second one looks like something Inafune told an intern to record with his smartphone.

 

[sturgboski]

We are in a post Massive Chalice world. People are way more skeptical to back a second KS by the same developer if the first hasn't delivered yet. Having a prototype goes a long way in showing that you are committed to finishing a project.
I think Inafune could have gotten away showing only concept art if the anime KS didn't exist and if the pitch video was better produced and the deal about the prelude vs the full game was better explained from the start. Seriously, compare MN9 pitch video vs Red Ash's. The first looks like they hired a professional advertisement studio, the second one looks like something Inafune told an intern to record with his smartphone.

Ugh thanks for pointing out that game. Reviews havent painted it well, that it fell short of expectations set by the Kickstarter. Hell, Broken Age, specifically Part 2, was a disappointment from what I understand.

Actually, to me, this situation most reminds me of Human Resources, the second Kickstarter from Uber Entertainment which came out October 2014, I think a month after the EA of Planetary Annihilation (Uber's previous KS game came out). Feedback from PA negatively affected Human Resources causing it to be cancelled after only totaling $380k, $1m short of its funding goal. A lot of the negative feedback in this thread stems from feelings toward MN9 and that Kickstarter which has definitely had a drag on Red Ash.

 

[junpei]

so now for a change of pace here is some fanart

By tovio rogers

more recent stats
https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats

the unfunded projects part is very interesting becuase it show that even getting to this point is rare for failed projects.

 

[213372bu]

I actually enjoyed that interview.

 

[Cmagus]

They just updated the campaign again showing how they made the character models. I Can't link it right now but it should be on the campaign page. They all show Calls model and breakdown of Becks.

 

[cyborg009]

Its just so odd how the anime will look so different from the game characters..

 

[Kusagari]

So what are they going to do if the anime reaches the goal and the game doesn't?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

So what are they going to do if the anime reaches the goal and the game doesn't?

they make the anime by itself? I mean lol it's like 18 minutes. I'm sure they could use it as the short generating interest to possibly pitch it again to kickstarter later OR pitch it to studios for a game/series.

 

[soultron]

They just updated the campaign again showing how they made the character models. I Can't link it right now but it should be on the campaign page. They all show Calls model and breakdown of Becks.

This took them 2 weeks?

Yeah, I don't have great optimism for this game. They made a huge mistake in not having any gameplay ready for their KS pitch video.

 

[rhandino]

So what are they going to do if the anime reaches the goal and the game doesn't?

Deliver one of the most awkward tie-in product ever made...

It's almost like the Level-5 model business model is not a fit for KS becuase it makes the developers look greedy and opportunistic.

 

[Cmagus]

This took them 2 weeks?

Yeah, I don't have great optimism for this game. They made a huge mistake in not having any gameplay ready for their KS pitch video.

Well I'm sure there is more done and I mean by time you model, unwrap, texture and rig the characters and then any sort of revisions that might have to be done, that time frame is fairly reasonable if you include all the other work.they probably have the one person doing the characters alone this early on but I could be wrong.

This is clearly just starting production but I think it's nice to see. I think having a working vertical slice would of helped a lot more but at least they've shown some progress.

Personally from what they've shown I can see progress and have a decent enough idea of what they are going for. It may be too late at this point but this stuff they've shown plus a little more would be a nice amount of stuff to pitch this again with.

 

[Graphics Horse]

The only way this can succeed now is an 'Inafue is totally failing to Kickstart MML3' thread title like the one we had for Elite Dangerous.

 

[twothunder]

The only way this can succeed now is an 'Inafue is totally failing to Kickstart MML3' thread title like the one we had for Elite Dangerous.

Except.. this isn't MML3
It's one of the problems with this kickstarter.
A lot of Legends fans really seem to like the characters and world of MML.
Making something similar doesn't get Trigger off the Moon

 

[junpei]

We are in a post Massive Chalice world. People are way more skeptical to back a second KS by the same developer if the first hasn't delivered yet. Having a prototype goes a long way in showing that you are committed to finishing a project.
I think Inafune could have gotten away showing only concept art if the anime KS didn't exis,t and if the pitch video was better produced, and if the deal about the prelude vs the full game was better explained from the start. Seriously, compare MN9 pitch video vs Red Ash's. The first looks like they hired a professional advertisement studio, the second one looks like something Inafune told an intern to record with his smartphone.

I thought that I was on the up and up when it came to KS but this is the first I am hearing of this massive chalice . it seem like unless your first project is great returning to KS can be hard. if you dip back into the KS well before your first product is out then you will catch flak . if your first game is not well received by the fans then you will catch flack . are there any successful examples of a developer that has had a second ks that waited until the first product was out ?

This took them 2 weeks?

Yeah, I don't have great optimism for this game. They made a huge mistake in not having any gameplay ready for their KS pitch video.

Is that too long? how long should it take to make those models ? anybody in the industry care to shed some light ?

 

[NoFaceNico]

. are there any successful examples of a developer that has had a second ks that waited until the first product was out ?

I can't name any Kickstarter games that came back for a second campaign. And one of the criticisms of Red Ash is the argument that after a game studio is successfully Kickstarted, it shouldn't need to come back for more.

A non-gaming example I can think of is Pebble Time, the follow up to the Pebble watch. It's the highest earning Kickstarter ever with over $20,000,000. As I remember reading somewhere, they did have manufacturing problems and delays with the first Pebble, which brought them criticism but I guess their product was still good enough to have a huge second Kickstarter.